Do Charts of a Smooth Manifold Always Overlap?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter hansenscane
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Charts Manifold
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of charts in smooth manifolds, specifically whether charts within an atlas must overlap. Participants explore various scenarios involving charts, their intersections, and the implications of manifold connectivity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether charts of a smooth manifold always overlap, noting that they map to open subsets of R^n and are homeomorphisms.
  • Another participant provides an example of R^n as a manifold with a single chart that does not overlap with any others, suggesting that charts can exist without overlap.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the use of a maximal smooth atlas, where charts can be restricted to subsets, leading to overlapping charts.
  • One participant asserts that if a manifold is the union of open sets with pairwise-disjoint closure, it is disconnected, implying a relationship between disjointness and connectivity.
  • Another participant clarifies that while charts can overlap, they do not necessarily have to, providing examples of charts that cover disjoint intervals on the real line.
  • A later reply introduces a concept related to the Lebesgue Covering Dimension, discussing the refinement of covers in n-manifolds and providing a proof regarding disconnectedness without the need for disjoint closure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether charts must overlap, with some arguing that overlap is not a requirement while others suggest that in certain contexts, overlap is common. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of overlap among charts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific conditions under which charts may or may not overlap, including the structure of the manifold and the nature of the atlas. There are also mentions of the implications of disconnectedness and the properties of open sets.

hansenscane
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
I'm new to manifolds, so please forgive me if this sounds ignorant. I was just wondering whether the charts of a smooth manifold (within some atlas) always "overlap". If I'm not mistaken they map to open subsets of R^n, and being homeomorphisms should have the inverse image as open. But I'm not entirely sure, so I'd appreciate it if somebody could either confirm my understanding or explain what I'm missing.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There can be charts that do not overlap any other. Take for instance R^n itself as a manifold. There is an atlas for this manifold consisting of the single chart id:R^n-->R^n. So trivially, this chart intersects no other since there are no other. More generally, if a manifold has a connected component C homeomorphic to an open subset U of R^n, then there is an atlas for this manifold with a chart mapping C to U and intersecting no other chart.
 
Of course, you almost always deal with a maximal (possibly oriented) smooth atlas, which is defined to be an atlas which contains every possible chart that would be compatible with it (that's a loose paraphrase, but it conveys the idea). Then you can restrict a chart to a proper subset of its domain, and that will be a different chart also in the atlas, and of course they overlap.
 
If your manifold is the union of open sets with pairwise-disjoint closure, then it is disconnected.
 
Thanks you guys, that cleared a lot up. :smile:
 
I'm worried you guys are painting a misleading picture -- you're answering "can they overlap" but not "must they overlap".

For any open interval contained in the real line, there is a coordinate chart that covers only that interval and nothing else.

So, for example, a chart covering (0,1) and a chart covering (2,3) have empty overlap.


(And for the record, the empty set is an open subset)
 
Actually, using the fact that n is the Lebesgue Covering Dimension, an n-manifold
has, in each component, a refinement of each cover in which each element is covered
by a maximum of n+1 charts.

To give a proof to the previous claim that a manifold M covered by a union
of pairwise-disjoint open sets must be disconnected ( I think that disjoint closure
is not necessary):

Let U_(i in I) {V_i} cover M, with V_j/\V_k ={ }

Then any V_k is open in M, but also closed in it, since its complement in M is the
union of a collection of open sets V_k- \/{V_i}-V_k.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
10K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K