News Do You Know Why Trump is Popular?

[WWGD]

To respond...4 and 5 are closely related, because the belief is that one (illegal immigration) begets the other. There are 11 million or so illegals, and 11 million or so on unemployment. Are they 1 for 1 match-ups? No, and no one is saying that. The conservatives believe the Democratic Party frowns on manual labor so it's OK that illegals do "that" work, while citizens go to college and are white collar workers. Conservatives believe that all jobs and careers can be honorable and productive, and should be reserved for citizens and legal residents. When workers are few, there are 3 legal choices: raise wages; automate; or quit. Illegal workers subvert that logic, keep wages low, and lock workers into perpetual economic slavery.
And no, religion as the basis of morality has not been shredded, it is alive, well, and the pre-eminent reason for morality. Anything else is just a temporary fad with no consequences, leading to eventual breakdown of civility, lawfulness, and civilization. Saying religion is corrupted because of a few errant workers is equivalent to shutting down all educational institutions because some alumni committed murder at some time in the past 200 years...it's nonsensical.
Conservatives don't care if you're homosexual...what you do in your house between adults is none of our business. It IS a problem when you wish to equate homosexuality with heterosexuality. The recent gay marriage issue comes to mind. SCOTUS created law by allowing two homosexuals to marry, but didn't say why it should stop at 2, nor the species, nor any other possible combination. We USED to have a good reason...only one man and one woman in a monogamous heterosexual relationship is the single best combination that provides the best support for women and children...There's about 10,000 years of empirical evidence to support this, but no, NOW we are so much smarter (sarcasm) that we can forego millennia of evidence and just strike out willy-nilly.
The road to hell is smooth, and easy to walk down...but becomes incredibly steep and difficult when trying to backtrack.

Your claims are pure speculation. Countries/areas with low level of religious belief are no less moral than those with high level of belief. You may even say the opposite is the case given that the religious South has a much higher rate of violent crime than most parts of the more secular North (which is no bastion of sainthood, though) :
http://www.businessinsider.com/south-has-more-violent-crime-fbi-statistics-show-2013-9
And the problem with the Church is an institutional one, not a matter of " a few bad apples" , an unwillingness of the Church as a whole to come clean and punish those responsible. That erodes the Church _as an institution_. And my point is that there is no reasonable evidence that "foreigners take national's' jobs" ; feel free to find some and convince me otherwise EDIT https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=are illegals taking our jobs for a variety of opinions on this.

 

[StatGuy2000]

John Oliver has just done a brilliant, hiliarious episode on Last Week Tonight about Donald Trump:

 

[boomtrain]

And my point is that there is no reasonable evidence that "foreigners take national's' jobs" ; feel free to find some and convince me otherwise EDIT https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=are illegals taking our jobs for a variety of opinions on this.

Your link is to a google search. Was there a specific page we were supposed to click on?
anyway...

• Applying the standard textbook model to illegal immigration shows that illegal immigrants increased GDP by $395 to $472 billion. As before, this “contribution” to the economy does not measure the net benefit to natives.
• The immigration surplus or benefit to natives created by illegal immigrants is estimated at around $9 billion a year or 0.06 percent of GDP — six one-hundredths of 1 percent.
• Although the net benefits to natives from illegal immigrants are small, there is a sizable redistribution effect. Illegal immigration reduces the wage of native workers by an estimated $99 to $118 billion a year, and generates a gain for businesses and other users of immigrants of $107 to $128 billion.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

 

[jim hardy]

Bile ?
Bile? Most of what i see is directed from the GOP good old boy network toward Trump. Networks are glad to air it..
Trump just throws it back in their face.

I liked this synopsis of the campaign environment, by one Jeff Nyquist:

The formula is: Trump's supporters are Vichy Republicans who deserve summary execution. This is justified because: (1) Trump is a Nazi. (2) Trump wants to have a New Holocaust with illegal aliens in the gas chambers of the New Auschwitz. Logically, the good conservatives must hang Trump as was done to the surviving Nazi leaders at Nuremberg, if only to preempt his crimes.

This is real insanity. And it is an insanity that has prevailed -- and will likely prevail despite Mr. Trump's best efforts. Just as last week's debate was "insane," with Dr. Carson humorously begging to be attacked, the aftermath will prove even more egregious and aberrant. This contemptible episode of political theater, with blatant lies and scandal pouring from both sides, verifies Carl Jung's thesis in The Undiscovered Self, that modernity represents a slow descent into literal madness via classic shadow-projection (accusing one's rival of one's own wickedness). Not knowing themselves, or their context, modern men can have no dignity, no seriousness, no contact with the source of their being, and therefore, a looser and looser connection with reality. With the madness comes anger, and at the end of anger is pure unadulterated violence.

The TV ads here in Northeast Arkansas are increasingly hyperbolic and desperate. I never saw a campaign season like this.

 

[WWGD]

Bile ?
Bile? Most of what i see is directed from the GOP good old boy network toward Trump. Networks are glad to air it..
Trump just throws it back in their face.

I liked this synopsis of the campaign environment, by one Jeff Nyquist:
The TV ads here in Northeast Arkansas are increasingly hyperbolic and desperate. I never saw a campaign season like this.

I have no interest in defending any candidate, but your quote is a caricature of , at least, my position. Many very careful and specific arguments have been made and documented, no need to refer to subconscious reactions to explain these positions. His way of talking about Mexicans coming in as rapists , his threats of bombing and making others submit to his will are all very well documented.

 

[russ_watters]

Well, by itself it is not a big deal, but in a context of general bile against anyone who disagrees with him adds up to his refusal to condemn.

Well, x plus nothing is still just x. People are treating it like a big deal and putting it on the pile when it really doesn't add anything.

 

[russ_watters]

Apparently TP is a news organization, or perhaps more accurately, and media project (news journal).

Who/what they are is described well enough in their wiki pages:
"ThinkProgress is an American political news blog. It is a project of the Center for American Progress, a progressivepublic policy research and advocacy organization."

TP claims, "ThinkProgress is editorially independent. All editorial decisions are made by the editors of ThinkProgress. Editorial decisions are not influenced by those who financially support the site, either through advertising or contributions to our parent organization."

That's nice, but I think you are missing my point. As a blog of an advocacy site, they are up-front about their bias (which is nice, I guess), but the point is that they have no duty to journalistic ethics or balance because of what they are. It's fine to criticize FoxNews when they are inaccurate or biased because they are violating a principle they claim to hold. An advocacy site doesn't have such a mandate. To put it plainly, they are the opposite of unbiased: they exist only to forward their bias.

We tend to allow publications by advocacy organizations, but only barely. They aren't news organizations and aren't on the same footing, regardless of if they are accurate or not.

 

[russ_watters]

"Mexican migrants are criminals and rapists"

[separate post]
Here is the full quote about Mexico (as I've heard it live on TV and reprinted here courtesy of the Washington Post article):

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

Thank you for the actual quote and I'll say again for future reference: it is not acceptable to post things in quotes that aren't quotes. When you do that, you are posting your interpretation/opinion as fact, when it isn't.

So, what's the difference between the two "quotes"? The first one contains no qualifiers. It implies all Mexican immigrants are criminals/rapists. The actual quote doesn't. The actual quote isn't great, but what you posted is much worse: it is inaccurate/an exaggeration.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

I like Trump because I think he is a bull in a china shop. IMO our political system is dysfunctional and I think Trump is the best candidate to destroy the current order. No, I don't think it's intentional on his part.

I think he will step on enough toes in Washington that both parties will unite to tear him down, then fix the some of the problems so they don't have to put up with his ilk again. O.K. it's more of a hope than a prediction.

Hope and change baby, hope and change.

 

[axmls]

I like Trump because I think he is a bull in a china shop. IMO our political system is dysfunctional and I think Trump is the best candidate to destroy the current order. No, I don't think it's intentional on his part.

I think he will step on enough toes in Washington that both parties will unite to tear him down, then fix the some of the problems so they don't have to put up with his ilk again. O.K. it's more of a hope than a prediction.

Hope and change baby, hope and change.

The only problem is that this is our china shop, and "messing up the system" is hardly what I'd consider a good platform, especially when it's coming from someone who has flip-flopped on his views harder than anyone I've ever seen--just in time to run for the Republican nomination. Bozo the Clown would also destroy the current order, but no one's rushing to elect him.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

The only problem is that this is our china shop, and "messing up the system" is hardly what I'd consider a good platform, especially when it's coming from someone who has flip-flopped on his views harder than anyone I've ever seen--just in time to run for the Republican nomination. Bozo the Clown would also destroy the current order, but no one's rushing to elect him.

Sorry, I didn't know Bozo was running. Perhaps I should vote for him instead?

BTW, I don't feel it's my china shop. Perhaps that's part of the problem?

 

[russ_watters]

Though I wouldn't vote for Trump for that reason, I think there is merit in the "bull in a China shop idea":

Parties die. The Whigs died because they could not bring themselves to stand against the Democratic Party that overwhelmingly supported or, at least, tolerated slavery in the South and its extension into the territories, thereby threatening the North. So a new Republican Party very quickly arose to replace it. Now the national GOP establishment’s failure to listen to the people is on the verge of giving us Donald Trump. If it does, it deserves to be replaced by a party that puts the Constitution first and politics second.

It is (almost) time for an American Constitution Party.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...y-elections-2016-third-party-column/81102918/

I'm not exactly sure what he means by a "Constitution Party", but the idea of the Republican Party imploding and being reborn as something else certainly appeals to me. And I get the impression most people on PF dislike their parties and might support implosion and rebuilding into something better. I don't think it can happen in the course of nine months, but it would be great/historic!

 

[jim hardy]

no need to refer to subconscious reactions to explain these positions.

?
How else to understand such aberrant behavior ? Mere honest mention of issues provokes irrational, virulent ad-hominem invective, rife with mis-quotes and exaggeration..

Small wonder so many plain folks are embracing this sentiment

see post 267

question was 'Do you understand why is Trump so popular. "
I do.
"Lying politician" having become the redundancy it is
somebody who breaks step from the platitudes and whose body language conveys openness is going to appeal to lots of folks.

That's why Trump is so popular. I think it is that simple.

 

[WWGD]

?
How else to understand such aberrant behavior ? Mere honest mention of issues provokes irrational, virulent ad-hominem invective, rife with mis-quotes and exaggeration..

Small wonder so many plain folks are embracing this sentiment
View attachment 96660see post 267

question was 'Do you understand why is Trump so popular. "
I do.
"Lying politician" having become the redundancy it is
somebody who breaks step from the platitudes and whose body language conveys openness is going to appeal to lots of folks.

That's why Trump is so popular. I think it is that simple.

So Trump does not lie? I don't endorse the status quo, I just don't think Trump is really better. Different is necessary but not sufficient. And when Trump starts saying what he's said, he gets the same in kind. Press is unfair? Only want ratings? No kidding. Need to find better ways of dealing with it. And re over the top, it was your quote above that referred to comparisons with Hitler.

 

[jim hardy]

And re over the top, it was your quote above that referred to comparisons with Hitler.

All i know is what i read in the news.

Opinion: The problem with comparing Trump to Hitler
11/30/15 07:09 PM

3 save share group 110
By http://www.msnbc.com/byline/matthew-rozsa
Pundits and candidates alike are now accusing Donald Trump of being a fascist or neo-Nazi. Some are even comparing him to Adolf Hitler.

 

[mheslep]

Bile ?
Bile?

Yes, bile. Some scatological language, some bile.

Trump rallies in NH:

.."You can tell them to go f**k themselves! Because they let you down, and they left!"

We're going to knock the sh!t out of ISIS

...I would bomb the sh!t out of them..

She [crowd member] said he's [Ted Cruz] a p&ssy

“We can’t have a guy who stands in the middle of the Senate floor and every other senator thinks he’s a whack job, right? You have to make deals.
“And Ted can’t get along with anybody. He’s a nasty person.”

...You're not going to raise that f$ckin' price...

Dec 2015 rally on Clinton

...She got schl*nged...

2011 speech in Las Vegas, on China

...Listen you m@therf*ckers, we're going to tax you 25 percent...

On former POW McCain:

...I like people who weren't captured...

2006 about Rosie O'Donnell:

...I'd look her right in the fat ugly face of hers...

http://www.examiner.com/article/don...-rally-you-can-tell-them-to-go-f-k-themselves
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/21/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-disgusting/
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/04/trump_to_china_listen_you_moth.html
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/trump-calls-ted-cruz-whack-job-36514010
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/tru...-as-feud-deepens-one-week-before-iowa-caucus/

 

[WWGD]

Bile ?
Bile? Most of what i see is directed from the GOP good old boy network toward Trump. Networks are glad to air it..
Trump just throws it back in their face.

I liked this synopsis of the campaign environment, by one Jeff Nyquist:
The TV ads here in Northeast Arkansas are increasingly hyperbolic and desperate. I never saw a campaign season like this.

Your quote, of a Trump defender also makes references to Hitler and WW2. But, as many have said, Trump may bring about the downfall of the two rotting parties, and maybe their rebirth in a stronger form.

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

And mud was slung ...

 

[gleem]

You are completely - I mean totally - missing the point of Trump's statement and the issue he's discussing. Trump wants to end the practice of automatic citizenship for the children of illegal immigrants:

What about tourists? More Chinese are traveling to the US specifically to give birth. http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/08/news/china-birth-tourism/

 

[Astronuc]

Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes? Reduce minimum wage to levels equivalent to China? Rescind ACA? Curtail or eliminate SS and Medicare/Medicaid?

How will he make America great?

Collins mentioned that Trump will form the best Cabinet ever. With whom? Wheelers and dealers? Negotiators?

I really like to know how he will make Christianity great again. Wave his hands?

I'm curious about the thinking of Trump supporters.

 

[russ_watters]

Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes?

Primarily by reducing or eliminating corporate taxes. Ours are among the highest in the world and the cause-effect relationship is very clear:

Pfizer http://fortune.com/fortune500/pfizer-56/ 1.25% says its proposed merger, which it announced on Monday, will take its tax rate down from 23.5% to between 17% to 18% by the first full year after closing, which will likely be in 2017. Based on Pfizer’s math, the drug company will save about $1.2 billion in taxes that year. Not bad. (Allergan, because it is already based in Ireland, won’t see much of a difference in its tax bill.) But at least one expert thinks Pfizer’s actual savings in the first year after its combination with Allergan http://fortune.com/company/agn/ 2.00% could be nearly triple that, or $3.3 billion a year.

http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/pfizer-allergan-taxes/

High corporate taxes encourage American companies to move overseas.

Ironically, Chinese labor comes here to work in big pharma (and pay taxes)...I suppose they'll also follow the company to Ireland.

 

[Astronuc]

Ours are among the highest in the world and the cause-effect relationship is very clear:

While the tax rates are high - http://taxfoundation.org/article/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2014

Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php

 

[russ_watters]

While the tax rates are high - http://taxfoundation.org/article/corporate-income-tax-rates-around-world-2014

Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php

Agreed: our tax system is a joke, and the same issue there applies to personal income taxes (too many loopholes/deductions). You can reduce or eliminate the loopholes/deductions and substantially reduce the rate with no change in revenue. Then reduce the rate more to tip the playing field back in our direction.

 

[gfd43tg]

Or just flat out remove corporate and personal income tax. That will require a reevaluation of how we view what the role of government ought to be. I think there are a few departments that we can remove (education, IRS, interior) just to name a few.

 

[jim hardy]

Yes, bile. Some scatological language, some bile.

Per your links

It doesn't exactly scream "presidential gravitas," but the crowd ate it up.

With the Granite State primary set for this Tuesday, most polls have Trump in the lead by double digits.

Like it or not he has struck a chord. Seven states yesterday ?
Myself i think it's partly because we have so many 24 hour news outlets all marketing discontent. Fox, Comedy Central, Hannity, Chomsky, countless bloggers . We're reaping the resentment they sow .

Is it healthy for the country ? I really don't know. Anger was Dante's fifth circle, four more to go...

Buckle up - it could be a wild ride !

 

[mheslep]

Per your links...

Like it or not he has struck a chord. Seven states yesterday ?
Myself i think it's partly because we have so many 24 hour news outlets all marketing discontent. Fox, Comedy Central, Hannity, Chomsky, countless bloggers . We're reaping the resentment they sow .

Is it healthy for the country ? I really don't know. Anger was Dante's fifth circle, four more to go...

Buckle up - it could be a wild ride !

Yes, Trump has strong support. Yes Trump is winning states in this many-candidate primary campaign, though not a single case of winning half the vote. I think I understand the anger driving Trump support. What I don't understand is why anyone would deny Trump's tone, his bile.

Edit: BTW, IMO Clinton's rhetoric, not Trump's, is in first place for the most divisive, most demagogic.

“They’re doing everything they can to stop black people, Latinos, poor people, young people, people with disabilities from voting,” she said. “It’s a blast from the Jim Crow past, and we’re going to fight it.”

 

[mheslep]

Regarding the issues, particularly matters like 'bring jobs home or back to America', how exactly would Trump propose to do that.

I heard Chris Collins tonight talk about jobs that China stole. China didn't steal jobs, they simply convinced US corporations to use their much less expensive labor and materials. How would Trump convince US companies to bring jobs back to the US? Tax breaks? No corporate taxes? Reduce minimum wage to levels equivalent to China? Rescind ACA? Curtail or eliminate SS and Medicare/Medicaid?

How will he make America great?

Collins mentioned that Trump will form the best Cabinet ever. With whom? Wheelers and dealers? Negotiators?

I really like to know how he will make Christianity great again. Wave his hands?

Examine what the campaign has actually published. Trump has been vague on many topics, but trade and jobs are areas where he's published some detail.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform

• Attack China via the WTO and other means open to the executive on the basis or currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, and protectionist subsidies, lax environmental standards relative to the US.
• Lower the corporate tax to 15% (from the current 35%). The US currently has the highest rate in the OECD and G7. The Simpson Bowles commission organized by (and ignored by) Obama recommended a reduction to ~27%, and a zero marginal rate on corporate income from foreign sources.

Trump would also replace the ACA, which the CBO indicates reduces employment.

I'm curious about the thinking of Trump supporters.

I'm thinking their perception of condescension by the establishment weighs large in the their thinking.

 

[mheslep]

Companies apparently find ways to reduce tax liability and in some cases get tax rebates and pay very low rates already.
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2015/04/fifteen_of_many_reasons_why_we_need_corporate_tax_reform.php

The CTJ link you cite states *some* well connected and large firms, not all, not even most, are able to take advantage of the loopholes.

 

[gleem]

Have you seen this video of Christy's reaction to Trump's victory speech?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/offbeat/chris-christies-facial-expressions-during-donald-trumps-speech-were-easily-the-best-part/ar-BBqdOF6?li=BBnbcA1

Not sure what if he did the right thing in supporting Trump?