Does an Illegal Turn Ticket Affect License or Plate Number in Canada?

[Norman.Galois]

Yeah, sounds like crappy traffic engineering. That's a solid defense in the US. What's even weirder from my US perspective are that the cops are trying to micro-manage the traffic engineering themselves (which they aren't qualified to do).

Ontario has the best setup for highways and roads. In all the places I've been, the US probably has the worse. Meaning New York State, Michigan State, and Pennsylvania. You can miss an exit, you're screw and lost lots of time. In Ontario, all exits are made to go on and off easily. Of course, if contruction is going on, not much you can do.

 

[DaveC426913]

Ok. However, from cop's vantage point, he will say that you were in the center lane and he observed you make a left turn cutting off traffic in the left lane. He does not need any proof. He will tell the judge what kind of weather it was, visibility conditions, and that he had an unobstructed view of your vehicle and never lost continuity of observation.

Yes. I am not refuting anything about the officer's account. That's the beauty of my defense. What he saw is God's truth.

But he did not account for mitigating circumstances.

Oh and another thing.. did the left lane have a solid white line or double line between left and center lanes? If so you can't cross that lane legally

Yes. The solid white line is marked on my diagram.

My defense is that the construction is a game-changer.

 

[Pyrrhus]

As a Transportation engineer, I agree with Dave. The cop shouldn't have given him a ticket.

Good luck Dave!

 

[DaveC426913]

Update:

Lodged my plea of not guilty. I will hear from them some time in the next six months.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Right. Nothing is your fault. This cop is just confused and misguided and the world is out to get you.

Police officers are not infallible and they do have occasion to give tickets that are not warranted. That is the reason why there is a means to fight them. ;-)

 

[zomgwtf]

Police officers are not infallible and they do have occasion to give tickets that are not warranted. That is the reason why there is a means to fight them. ;-)

As well in some situations the cop isn't the one who is supposed to make a judgement call on whether the law was broken. They are there to uphold the CURRENT views on law not set precedent, that's for the courts(assuming the ticket is given such as in this situation). So yes what dave did IS 'illegal' as he made a lane change to make a left hand turn too close to the intersection. The question is though due to the circumstances IS it punishable? In my opinion it's not. I do not think that the officer is at fault since dave hasn't said that he was rude or obnoxious or anything of the sort. It's clear that a majority of people who have spoken in this thread have sided with daves plea of not guilty and now the only thing to do is wait for judgement

@Dave, when I had said earlier that you didn't want cronxeh's opinion it was because I could already see where he was going with everything. He was assuming things in his very first post that he could have possibly no idea about.

@cronxeh, I still am under the imperssion that you have never in your life driven in downtown Toronto, I would love to see you do so during rush hour.

 

[zomgwtf]

Well let's just start off by saying that I have my share of traffic tickets, and I fought them all, and I have lost in all cases. I brought witnesses that were in the car with me, I took pictures, it did not matter. I live in New York City. Population 8 million. I don't know how many people take the public transportation in Toronto, but we have 4 times the number of people here, so I'll just assume that my traffic conditions are far worse than yours.

That being said, there were other people who were already in the left lane. Answer me this: how did these people get in that lane? Why was Dave not able to get in the same exact lane that was occupied by other motorists around him. What possible reason does he have not being able to merge for, what is it, 400 feet? Let me try to assume this: he was riding past all that bumper-to-bumper traffic hoping to see an opening. Well he did not see one until he got to the solid white line when people assumed nobody was arrogant enough to cross it in front of them. He can blame construction and sun glare, pesky pedestrians, etc. But the bottom line is: the other people managed to get in there because they put on a turn signal, waited for an opening, and changed into left lane in anticipation of making a left.

At first I could've given you some slack, thinking maybe you are from US and driving there, not knowing the local streets, but that isn't even the case.

That's awesome you live in a city with greater population. It's actually closer to 3x the population of Toronto but sure, it is larger. Now let's look at the way the streets are engineered for both cities and then maybe you'll go away?

You assume that the traffic is 'far worse' than the ones in Toronto, yet you also assume that dave was just driving comfortably along in the centre lane looking for an opening. You are mistaken if you think that is how rush hour traffic works here, very mistake. Which is exactly WHY I had originally said that your opinion won't matter for much.

 

[Redbelly98]

Allow me to say, in an honest attempt at some humor and nothing more:

And the sign said / Anybody caught turnin' left / Will be ticketed on sight.
So I made my left turn / And I yelled at the sign / "Hey! What gives y* -=>POLICE SIREN<=-
*uh oh*
(Dave! Didn't you see the sign? Jeez!)

That being said ... good luck Dave.

 

[DaveC426913]

Allow me to say, in an honest attempt at some humor and nothing more:

And the sign said / Anybody caught turnin' left / Will be ticketed on sight.
So I made my left turn / And I yelled at the sign / "Hey! What gives y* -=>POLICE SIREN<=-
*uh oh*
(Dave! Didn't you see the sign? Jeez!)

That being said ... good luck Dave.

 

[Alfi]

I'm a Torontonian also, I know the intersection you are talking about.
With the construction and the traffic, it's a near impossible situation to follow the letter of the law.
Bring in the pictures, and I feel you should be let off.

Just be glad you don't have to face Judge Judy :)

 

[Bruceb]

Hello Guys,

I have most likely received the same type of ticket as the poster, HTA 141(5), but mine was dropped by the prosecutor right when he realized that I was making a left turn into a mall driveway rather than an intersection.

However, because of that accident and since it was no-insurance case, I have to fight a battle with plaintiff's insurance company.

I am going to base part of my defense on the fact that the offense HTA 141(5) - left turn - fail to afford reasonable opportunity to avoid collision - should still stand and be recognized by the judge because it did not apply to the situation.

However, the plaintiff will probably try to have the judge decide on this. Since, this ticket was not contested and dropped right away by a prosecutor previously, I have to fight the damn thing again.

So, I want to know if you bright bunch of people, know where I can search in the Ontario Traffic Act as to what an intersection is and how it is defined legally so that I can present that to this judge as well so he can accept my case.

thanks,
Bruce

 

[DaveC426913]

DIIIIIIIS.

MIIIIISSED.

I fought it and won.

WOOT!

It was a bigger risk than I thought. If I took the plea, it would be reduced to $60 from $110 and zero points. Wait, what? i.e if I fought it and lost I'd get a 3 point penalty. I had not known this until 30 mimutes before my appearance. How badly did I want this?


Furthermore, as it was pointed out to me three separate times: this is a "regulatory infraction", not a "criminal infraction". The upshot of this is that they don't have to take into account intent or anything, all they have to do is prove that I did it, and it's an automatic conviction.

Again, how badly did I want this?


Anyway, the very short version: the officer's testimony went on at great length describing everything within a hundred of yards of the intersection - every roadside sign, every road painting, every overhead sign. (Even the judge said she had never heard a site described in such minute detail). The officer even said that he drove the route prior to setting up his site to ensure all signs were in place.

So, when it came time for me to question him, I asked him:

You drove your route, and you described this overhead sign 100 yards away? But you did not see this construction filling the lane?

Case dismissed.

 

[HeLiXe]

Good for you Dave :) *squints* So what does that sign say?

Yeah,,,,the construction is a bit clearer imo.

 

[baywax]

Way to be Dave...! Show them damn hosers... yeeeeha!

 

[Evo]

WOOT!

Now that cop will be out to get you.

 

[GeorginaS]

Well done, Dave! (I can't even use your nickname in this instance. Sheesh.)

When you're in the right, it's frequently worthwhile to take the time and show up in court. Glad you did and glad it went well.

 

[JaredJames]

That's awesome.

Sounds like one of those amazing "rabbit out of a hat" defences you see saving the day in films.