Does eletron spin cause magnetic field?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between electron spin and magnetic fields, particularly in the context of bar magnets and eddy currents. Participants explore concepts of magnetic fields, the role of electrons, and the implications of quantum principles like the Pauli exclusion principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the magnetic field is caused by the spin of charged particles, particularly electrons, and question whether electrons in eddy currents within a bar magnet spin in the same direction.
  • There is a challenge regarding the concept of virtual electrons, with some participants arguing that they are not real and that the magnetic field extends beyond the bar magnet according to Maxwell's laws without the need for electrons in the surrounding space.
  • One participant questions the physical definition of a magnetic field, seeking clarification on its properties and its relation to permanent magnets.
  • Another participant distinguishes between the magnetic field associated with electron spin and eddy currents, stating that eddy currents are induced by changing magnetic fields.
  • There is a discussion about the Pauli exclusion principle and its implications, with some participants asserting that it does not apply to fields in the same way it applies to particles.
  • Some participants express confusion about the nature of fields versus particles, suggesting that fields are algebraic structures and do not interact in the same manner as particles do.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of magnetic fields, the role of electron spin, and the interpretation of quantum principles. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include differing interpretations of concepts such as virtual particles, the nature of magnetic fields, and the application of quantum principles. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and definitions that are not universally agreed upon.

brianhurren
Messages
71
Reaction score
2
I read somewhere that a magnetic field is caused by the spin of a charge particle, in most cases the electron. So, I take it then that the electrons in the eddy currents in a bar magnet are all spinning in the same direction?
Also, do those eddy currents induce currents in the virtual electrons in the space surrounding the bar magnet, thus extending the field beyond the bar magnet?

if one field encounterd another field with particles of same energy level and spin, would Pauli exclusion principle cause them to repeal?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I read somewhere that a magnetic field is caused by the spin of a charge particle, in most cases the electron. So, I take it then that the electrons in the eddy currents in a bar magnet are all spinning in the same direction?
Which eddy currents do you mean?
The (or most) electron spins in a bar magnet are aligned.
Also, do those eddy currents induce currents in the virtual electrons in the space surrounding the bar magnet
Virtual electrons are not real. That approach will not lead to anything but confusion.
thus extending the field beyond the bar magnet?
The field does not need electrons to be there - the field of the bar magnet just extends beyond the bar magnet according to Maxwell's laws.
if one field encounterd another field with particles of same energy level and spin, would Pauli exclusion principle cause them to repeal?
I don't think this question makes sense.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: gracy
The field does not need electrons to be there - the field of the bar magnet just extends beyond the bar magnet according to Maxwell's laws.

I am questioning the use of a theory or law to physically define something. Sure, Maxwell mathematically defined electrical phenomenon, but what is a magnetic field? It is a force, associated with magnets and electric current, but what physical properties/matter is it made of.? Please use permanent magnet soz I can understand...:)
 
The electrons do have a magnetic field which has to do with their "spin". This has nothing to do with eddy currents, which refer to induced currents by a changing magnetic field. Sometimes the magnetic field outside the magnet is said to be composed of virtual photons, not virtual electrons. But this is just one way of modeling it, and you shouldn't think of this picture as gospel.
brianhurren said:
if one field encounterd another field with particles of same energy level and spin, would Pauli exclusion principle cause them to repeal?
You are confusing fields with particles. Pauli exclusion principle will prevent two identical fermions (of which electrons qualify) of the same energy and spin from occupying the same space. Fields are algebraic structures which don't 'encounter' one another. There's just one electromagnetic field, everywhere; and there is a value of the field at any point in space-time. There's also an electron field in quantum field theory. It doesn't make sense to talk about fields repelling each other in the way you would talk about particles. The particles, on the other hand, do repel each other in a way. See electron degeneracy pressure.
 
oflittleuse said:
but what is a magnetic field?
This is a question for philosophy, not for physics. In physics, "magnetic field" is a way to describe experiments related to things called "magnets", "electric current" and so on. And apparently that description (via the Maxwell equations) works very well.

Oh, and please start a new thread for your own questions, this thread is over one year old.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
5K