Does Increasing the Area of a Loop in a Magnetic Field Induce Current?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of increasing the area of a conductive loop placed in a constant magnetic field. Participants explore whether this change in area induces a current in the circuit connected to the loop, referencing Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between the changing area of the loop and the induced electromotive force (emf), with some suggesting that the induced emf can be calculated using the rate of change of area. Questions arise regarding the implications of the Lorentz force on charge carriers and the configuration of the loop in relation to the magnetic field.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the concepts involved, with some participants providing clarifications and corrections regarding the setup of the loop and the magnetic field direction. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being examined, and guidance has been offered on how to approach the calculation of induced emf.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential complications in calculating the induced emf due to the configuration of the loop and the magnetic field. There is also mention of the need to clarify the definitions of the axes used in the problem setup.

arpon
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Homework Statement


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Suppose, there is a 'constant' magnetic field ##B## in the upward direction. A loop of conductive wire(XYZ in the picture, which is connected to a closed circuit with resistance R) is placed horizontally on it. The area of the loop is being increased with time. Will there be any current flow in the circuit?

Homework Equations


##\mathcal {E} = -\frac{d \phi}{dt}##
##\phi = BA cos \theta##

The Attempt at a Solution


I think, as the area is changing, there will be a current flow proportional to the rate of change of area inclosed by the loop.
 
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It's good to think of this induced emf as a consequence of the Lorentz force on the charge carriers in the wire. For the loop the velocity of the wire segments is outwards, perpendicular to B. The Lorentz force is ##\propto \vec v \times \vec B##, so clockwise.

The xyz directions require some explanation...
And ## \Delta \Phi## due to moving the outer loop into the B field (and changing its area as well ?) is a complication I disregarded.
 
BvU said:
And ΔΦ \Delta \Phi due to moving the outer loop into the B field (and changing its area as well ?) is a complication I disregarded.
Can't I calculate the induced EMF in this way? :
##\mathcal E = \frac{d\Phi}{dt} = \frac{d(BA)}{dt} = B \frac{dA}{dt}##
BvU said:
The Lorentz force is ∝v⃗ ×B⃗ \propto \vec v \times \vec B, so clockwise.
And how can I calculate the induced EMF or current flow by the formula you mentioned: ##\vec F = q \vec v \times \vec B## [##q## is the total charge of the charge carriers in the wire]
BvU said:
The xyz directions require some explanation...
What kind of explanation?
 
arpon said:
Can't I calculate the induced EMF in this way? :
##\mathcal E = \frac{d\Phi}{dt} = \frac{d(BA)}{dt} = B \frac{dA}{dt}##
Yes you can. dA is for the entire loop, not just the circle part.

And how can I calculate the induced EMF or current flow by the formula you mentioned: ##\vec F = q \vec v \times \vec B## [##q## is the total charge of the charge carriers in the wire]
Hard work. It's done for you here . Wire is neutral, of course. But there are mobile charge carriers and immobile ones. You refer to the former, of course.

What kind of explanation?
A little better than just writing x, y and z around the circular loop. You do indicate that B is in the z direction. Add that the circular loop is in the xy plane. (And you can avoid the complication I mentioned by placing the rectangular part of the loop in the yz plane, so that that part of ##\Phi=0##
 
BvU said:
A little better than just writing x, y and z around the circular loop. You do indicate that B is in the z direction. Add that the circular loop is in the xy plane. (And you can avoid the complication I mentioned by placing the rectangular part of the loop in the yz plane, so that that part of Φ=0
Actuallly, I named the points on the circular loop as x,y,z ; I realize it was not wise, because it creates confusion with the x,y,z-axes. However, I am explaining it again, the magnetic field is in the Z direction. The rectangular part of the circuit is on the yz-plane, and the circular part(which is changing the area enclosed by itself) is on the xy-plane, i.e., perpendicular to the direction of magnetic field.
Now, I would request you to revise your posts keeping in mind this explanation.
 
As far as I can distinguish the way you intended the configuration is indeed the way I understood it. So: yes, the movement of the wire increasing the diameter of the loop induces an electromotive force. And it can be calculated using Faraday's law $$
\mathcal E = \oint_{\partial \Sigma} \vec E \cdot d\vec \ell= -{d\over dt}\;\int_\Sigma \vec B \cdot \vec{dA}
$$which comes down to ##B\; \frac{dA}{dt}##
 
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