Does massless particles experience gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether massless particles experience gravity, exploring concepts from Newtonian physics and General Relativity. Participants examine the implications of masslessness on gravitational interaction and the behavior of such particles in curved spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that according to Newtonian theory, massless particles would not experience a force of gravity, but they could still experience gravitational acceleration.
  • Others assert that a particle with no energy does not exist, yet massless particles follow null geodesics in curved spacetime.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between force, mass, and acceleration, with some participants suggesting that a massless particle can experience acceleration without a force, challenging traditional Newtonian views.
  • A participant requests clarification on the concept of null geodesics, indicating a lack of understanding of the term and its implications for massless particles.
  • Another participant explains that a massless particle in curved spacetime follows a straight line in spacetime, although its path appears curved in three-dimensional space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of masslessness for gravitational interaction, with no consensus reached on whether massless particles experience gravity or how to interpret their behavior in Newtonian terms versus General Relativity.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and implications of massless particles, gravitational acceleration, and the nature of null geodesics. The discussion reflects a mix of intuitive and technical reasoning that may not align with established physics principles.

mite
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From Newtonian theory massless particles wouldn't experience force of gravity.

Then from General relativity prospective gravity is ripples in space time due to a massive

body so other objects move in the straight path in this curved space-time hence this

objects appears to move in a curved path. Then what would happen if we have a massless

particle with no energy. As space time is curved (path the objects move is curved) shouldn't

it move in a curved path. If it moves in the curved path doesn't it mean that massless

particle also experience gravity. I am confused :confused: can anybody help.
 
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mite said:
Then what would happen if we have a massless

particle with no energy.
A particle with no energy doesn't exists. However, massless particles do follow a null geodesic in curved space-time.
 
Last edited:
mite said:
From Newtonian theory massless particles wouldn't experience force of gravity.
In Newtonian theory a massless particle may not experience a force from gravity, but it would still experience a gravitational acceleration.

f = GMm/r²
ma = GMm/r²
a = GM/r²
limit of a as m->0 = GM/r²
 
Hootenanny said:
A particle with no energy doesn't exists. However, massless particles do follow a null geodesic in curved space-time.

Thanks for replying
I don't know what null geodesic is? can u explain
can u guide me to some website on this topic
 
DaleSpam said:
In Newtonian theory a massless particle may not experience a force from gravity, but it would still experience a gravitational acceleration.

f = GMm/r²
ma = GMm/r²
a = GM/r²
limit of a as m->0 = GM/r²

Thanks for replying
But if particle is massless then there is no force only then how can there be acceleration
can u please explain
 
mite said:
Thanks for replying
But if particle is massless then there is no force only then how can there be acceleration
can u please explain
Think about it.

f = m a

If m=0 then f=0 regardless of a. Therefore, in Newtonian theory a massless particle can experience an acceleration without a force.

By the way, this is not a correct way of looking at light and gravity since EM waves carry momentum, but it is only intended to illustrate the point that you need to think carefully when you are thinking about massless particles in Newtonian terms. A lot of your intuitive Newtonian ideas don't apply to massless particles any more than they apply to particles moving at a significant fraction of c.
 
Last edited:
mite said:
Thanks for replying
I don't know what null geodesic is? can u explain
can u guide me to some website on this topic
A geodesic is a generalisation of of a straight line and a null geodesic is so called because it's arc length is zero (or the magnitude of the tangent vector is zero). If you Google "geodesic" you should find plenty of references.

Moving away from geodesics and back to your question, a massless particle in curved space-time will follow a straight line in space-time. However, it's path will 'appear' curved in 3D-space (i.e. if we just consider space at an instant in time).
 

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