Does Religon Show Weakness in Society

[Moses]

Well, i will not discuess the evolution theory here,
But by seeing some thoeris as evolution,
I can say as well that some scientiest were planned to destroy humanity and morals by their wrong stupid claims, "As Darwin sayin dat African are closer to monkeys than European white man, and thus it is natural that the white man will whipe the Black man according to the competition [forgot the enlish word] on resources...DARWIN IS A LOSER..the only fact i am sure form it from my first glance looking at his stupid claims...

Still, lots of evolution staff does not condratics my faith, but may contradict Christianity..which itself contradict with science in many places sand science wins usually [except here about evolution, Christianity achieve total victory against Darwin...]

I might be out of track a little bit..and hoping we can discuess this in new/another thread...

 

[Thallium]

Tenyears, I did not call you a prophet. I feel that your views are somewhat New Age-inspred. Which god are you talking about?

Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)

 

[TENYEARS]

Lol, it was not you or anyone on this forum which called me a prophet and since there is or never was such a thing the words are irrelevant. Like I said god chooses no one. There is only one god out of which all things were created as physics will one day understand. lol My understanding comes from seeing the almighty, from having visions, from seeing another healed with physical evidence and a physical by product outside himself. By understanding what gravity is what matter is. This is what creates the words that come out of my mouth or that pour through my fingers. Then again, has anything other than that ever caused anything?

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Weakness is in all societies, it is everywhere, from physical to social structures, and indeed it is omnipresent in humans. BUT I think religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity.
Yes, religion may be a means to define what we don’t know, what science cannot tell us - but is not much of science undefined and unproven itself? We cannot be so quick to say religion shows weakness in society – religion gives peace of mind to those who believe it, and to those who don’t it gives them a wondering sensation, makes them think: is it true? And if a persuasive leader, someone of authority comes along and says “God exists,” they’re going to turn a few heads, and make people wonder if they are correct in saying ‘there is no god’.
If we look back into history, for example, we can see how leaders manipulated religion, or lead the masses or the church structure to protect their divine sovereignty. Take the great Napoleon I, for example; he remodelled the Catholic church in the early 1800's so he could strengthen his society, every Sunday he had his priests, ex-monks and cardinals preaching his word, perverting the bible (like MANY, many people have done) to suit his ideals, propaganda infiltrated those people every week, they hear ‘Napoleon is a divine leader, follow him, for he is the second coming,’ once, and they dismiss it – after a year or two of hearing it, they believe it…what I’m saying is that religion brings people together, it is a means to define life and death, and it is a way of getting political support; this masterpiece of either completely false gospel or celestial truth does certainally not show weakness in society.

When you speak of your examples... does this not show the weakness of society. Religon is a tool, a useful tool to control people. It can bring a sense of hope to people. This fact alone shows how it is a weakness... it shows that we are in the first stages of evolution. We will eventually not need to be told how things we don't understand happened. Posidon will not control the seas forever.

Relgion just shows how humans can be molded.

Also your comments about
"religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity. " is also incorrect in my opinion. Relgion brings isolated people together... true, but when you view it from a larger standpoint is has been the thing that has prevented people from comming together as a whole. In bringinging isolated people together you create barriers whose thickness still plagues our society today. Religon has been the root cause of many wars... people like Napolean use religon to manipulate people to fight for their own motives. In this fact religon is a weakness of society.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

The arrogance is beyond me. If you little fools and old fools alike only understood. Your responses are out of weakness. Out of unconscious unused mind. Young stupid fools. My answer is YES. For the it is out of weakness that even science is formed. You must create a method for the thing you do not understand. If you understand it, experience it what is there to create? Once the one who unerstood is gone there is a need to fill a void because why? Because you are not experiening what they did.

Understanding creates what is perceived as strength. It is not strength, it is that in pure understanding there can be no fear only understanding because the experiencer is in a pure state of witness which leaves nothing left for fear.

could you please restate this ... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.

 

[Evo]

Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)

No, you said that your belief in God wasn't for emotional reasons or the need to feel you aren't alone, which I said were the reasons usually stated by people that didn't buy into organized religion, but still maintained a belief in God. I was sincerely wondering what your reasons were.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Darwin wasn't a loser. His theories were very insightful regardless of whether they were right or not. Concerning the offensive claim he may have made towards white men whiping out the black men, that was probably incorrect. However, if white men are more evolved on average then it would make sense that black men would eventially become a minority.

This has idea has no real signifigance. Why are black men referred to as black men still? There are few instances where it is necessary to make reference to a black man. Black skin should be considered a variation, like black hair, green eyes, or large hands. If some black men are on average less evolved and can't keep up with society, they might become a minority or end up in lower conditions. We already see this in countries. I don't see how this correlates with prejudice or any prejudice Darwin may or may not have had.

 

[Chronos]

Religion suffers the same problem as any other non-mathematical approach to describing reality. Organized religion is, I think, not nearly so much a belief system as it is a sociological mechanism to establish and impose social order. It has evolved into the generally more efficient [and less bloody] form of modern governments and the rule of law. Organized religion has, and rightly so, been subsumed under the umbrella of politics. The need for such subcultures will inevitably decline, assuming government and the rule of law becomes increasingly utilitarian. Personal belief systems need not, and should not driven out of society. We simply will outgrow the urge to unjustly impose them on others. It is a good thing to have personal principles, and a sense of purpose and responsibility to promote the welfare of the local and global community. I believe there is a higher order than serving personal interests and ambitions: promoting the survival and advancement of all humanity. Is that a religion or must you have a higher authority, a God, to appeal to? Are you weak if you do and strong if you don't, or vice-versa?

 

[Thallium]

TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?

 

[Moses]

Well, I DO BELEIVE in God, and my reasons are not build in emotion. [ I HATE to have a blind faith...simply]

There is a saying from Prophet Mohammad [Last muslim prophet, as what muslims claimed] which i found it explain in a way the emotional part we are spekaing about here, he is saying -narrating from his God-:

[I created all me servant "humans" obeying me and beleiving in me, then the evil doers make them corrupted and take thme away from their religion]

The saying of that man [Mohammad] which he claims he is sended to us by God sounds exactly sa what i think persoanlly: We Do have in our nature "emotions" to believe in God, in addition to the logical proof i.e. God greated us with an emotional potential to believe in Him. This never by any way mean that the logical process to proof God has to be mix with emotions...

 

[Moses]

Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case...imagin how all of us are weak that we need food, drink, [religion?]..etc I totallly agree if you took the question from this angle,

However, we here took the Q from the point which is : Is a sociecty weak if it has religion running in the society? [I will not discuess in this pot about that]

I will clarify more the way we saw the Q by mentioning it in the opposite way: If the society does not have a religion going in it, is it a sign that it is strong?

The way you see the Q and you answer upon it i totally agree about it [ agree about the YES] I will found it odd if somebody will disagree from the members here

 

[TENYEARS]

could you please restate this ... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.

Tom if I explain it I join science and religion and if I do not maybe you will understand them. If so god help you.

 

[TENYEARS]

TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?

Thallium, I do not believe in god. I saw god and my god is the god which is only in one place and that is the place we all need to look. When we look in that place will you be able to find a place where god is not? My vision was not of a relative object but of a mind of which I was part of that extended beyond my skin. There was a day when I witnessed the very facet of creation itself. I was very very young, but that experience was I suppose one of the most profound. I am just a normal person When you read words of another you see the compression of sometimes a lifetime of thought and yet on a day to day experience we trudge forward doing what we need to do. There is no eternal utopia no savior and yet there is no external pain but there is an eternal and that is fair but most of all that is reality. In someways reality itself seems uncomprenshible and yet what is even more so which people will one day understand is that the present day view is even more logically incomprehensible.

 

[TENYEARS]

Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case.

Lol I was going to post that myself about athiests. Belief in any form is weakness for true strength which is not really strength is not believing and not deciding. It is clearing away and waiting until the pressure from the void created by a desire to see opens us to the reality that is. Honesty and the desire to understand will pave the way for anyone.

Happy Thanksgiving to all even if you do not celebrate. May you find truth in today and all that you see.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.

 

[misogynisticfeminist]

How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.

I don't believe that there's such a thing as "no belief". Belief dominates our lives in one way or another. Even the disbelief of a supreme diety still constitutes a belief.

And belief in the "truth", my, sounds a little like a preacher.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

I wasn't referring to religion with truth... sorry. I meant for example something like a person who believes the Earth is a cube versus someone who believes the Earth is an oblate spheroid. I believe that latter and i can back it up with scientific data... i believe in the truth... In religon it is impossible to ahve truth currently...

infact does anyone ever think that religon will be able to be disproved...

 

[Moses]

Tom McCurdy,
i think that religion could be disproved, and could be proved as well...

Simply, if X religion is from God, and that X religion shown a proof that it is from God, thus it is from God.

Now we have reached the bottom question of accepting religion according to me: Using mind ONLY, can that X religion supprot its claim that it is from God, i.e a "proper correct" religion? If it does, thus it is from God and it is proofed in this way, and vise versa.

In this way, I do have a religion, and after a really, really indepth analysis i chose mine [it is not our topic here what is my religion, i guess!] and in the same way i disprove other religions, even the level of disproving that i conclude was different from one rleiiogn to another

[i.e some i conclude that they are absolutely or vast majority not from God. some i can clearly see that their origin are from God but then people changed it so these religions become "out of the track", and the one i had i conclude it is form God, even many people did mistakes and put their own issues while practising it which it is totally wrong, but the pure true info still there for anyone to pick easily...]

An important issue to notify, the proofs that i found them valid are by no means less than the proof you know to believe that the Earth is as what you believe... [imean not less in strength]

 

[Tom McCurdy]

proving religon

proving religon indeed is possible...


if all of a sudden all the christians disappear... **** I guess I was wrong.
more to come... out of time

 

[Tom McCurdy]

th3 point is that religon is weakness... its humans comming up with ways to control others and to explain what otherwise can't be explained.

 

[Impossible?]

no, it provides comfort, although it is misunderstood

 

[TENYEARS]

Tom, I tend to disagree with you on relgion in terms of the religion defining what they do not understand in terms of relgious experience or actual reality. The symbolism many times is created because it defines a deeper understanding than hard cold discrete facts. For example if I were blind how would you describe the word blue to me. What it means. Maybe I would place a piece of ice in your hands. That is how relgion is. It attempts to show what is out of the experience of another something which approximates something simliar. To pave a way for that thought to flow. I tell you these things are real for I have experienced them and have no doubt yet to hear my words is just belief one way or another unless one experiences them for one self. This is what makes the real part of religion, much like the real part of science. There are those of religion who do not understand like there are those of science. They are one and the same. The experience of truth in science is like a relgious experience. When I discovered what gravity and matter were on that fateful day I discovered not only the greatest facet of science, but I lived through what some would define as a reglious experience for two days. I will give you a hint, it was what relgion describes as the living water. This is a physical experience in a very subtle form and is part of the complete reality all of humanity will one day understand.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

no, it provides comfort, although it is misunderstood

in what way do you feel its misunderstood?

 

[Moses]

proving religon indeed is possible...


if all of a sudden all the christians disappear... **** I guess I was wrong.
more to come... out of time

Sorry Tom McCurdy, i did not get your point completely,

Still, as a comment which it may not be in its place, when we talk abuot religion, i guess it is not wise to limit our discussion to Christianity, never means if the "technological most advanced" countries has Christianty as the most spread religion there that christianty IS the religion, simply NO..

Personally, I believe that Jesus was from God, and he is not God, and he brought a strenght to the society, but when the Roman Empire change Christianity to become waht the Emperor want [e.g Jesus is God, Trinity, mixing with some pagans issues...etc] its becomes not the religion of Jesus anymore even the basic origin of Christianty before that change was from there [I know, we are not discuessing Christianity here..but i am just giving an example] and this change which made Christianty weaker, and thus make it weakining the society [a good example is the Church dictatorship in the Mideaval ages] even the original part which remained among the changes ones were actually making a strong point in society [i.e love your neighbour, love you God, do not kill...etc]

 

[TENYEARS]

How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.

No belief means I do not know and I will attempt to understand what is but will not settle for belief. It means I will strive to understand until I do understand the truth and nothing less than the truth. Truth is an experience. The greatest human achievements seen and unseen are born from this state. Belief in truth will not change humanity or save our planet or our future. Humanity can only be saved by it's understanding/experience of the truth.

The weakness of belief in the truth means I follow because I do not experience. If I experience what is to follow? I blaze my own path before the truth that is. I find it in every step of my existence. Science/Religion one in the same. How many in science if not at a minimum the greater majority do not understand the very foundation of physics itself. Matter/Gravity. How can humans live their lives and not know what they are, what they are made of, where they came from and where they are going? How can one not need to know this? Live your whole life and not know? No not me. I do not condemn anyone for not knowing for at one time in our existence we were all there and yet I only look to that which I am attached. That is this planet the people that surround me and our paths into the future. When I think of that it motivates me to speak these words.

"He that find the spirt within him go no more out." Humanity should think over these words for they speak of it's destiny.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

what is your truth tenyears... and how will understanding it save our planet or future. Belief in truth is still belief no matter how defineed.

Also on Matter/Gravity... you claim that understanding it has changed you, how can you understand something that no one truly understands...

Do you know the existence of the graviton... is matter really made up of strings viberating in 11 different dimensions. Your truth is what I consider belief... for you have no way of knowing its truth. Beliving in truth is still believing.

by the way do you use a language translator when posting?

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Religion is a way of explaining things, a way of ordering the world as it seems best. That step impetus is progress from unknown/chaos to understanding. True, it is not complete truth, but it is the sign of intelligence and logic. I would say, that in the realm of abstracts, religion offers a very helpful and clear way of reasoning.

For example: Concerning right behavior, Christianity offers the belief that the incorrect or negative action is to sin (in Greek) is simply missing the mark. Now, that would be an acceptable place to start. If we postulate that all humans want and intend to make progress (vague and varied as we may understand it as individuals), then what I said about sin would be a corollary of sorts. Next, Christianity offers tangible imagery as representations for certain states of being. If you sin, you are missing the mark and somehow ignorant of what you must do to achieve your goal, and thus are in the dark/in hell and lost. Now, really if you are sinning and are not aware of it and think you are doing fine, then how will you know what the right action is? Just as in Socrate's Cave Metaphor, the people were unaware that they were seeing shadows in place of truth.

Where religion tries to make tangible these abstracts, we run into problems. But as far as creating a structure for progress, religion has the right idea. I think that in itself shows strength.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Religion is a way of explaining things, a way of ordering the world as it seems best. That step impetus is progress from unknown/chaos to understanding. True, it is not complete truth, but it is the sign of intelligence and logic. I would say, that in the realm of abstracts, religion offers a very helpful and clear way of reasoning.


Where religion tries to make tangible these abstracts, we run into problems. But as far as creating a structure for progress, religion has the right idea. I think that in itself shows strength.

It is the way that religon explains things that shows weakness. True religon does try to explain things, and in effect this means that people have actually gone through the thought process to ponder about their world and universe which does show intelligence, but the answer they come up with shows the weakness. Religon could be viewed as a step from moving away from a world of unknown and chaos, but it is a step in the wrong direction. Religon attempts to come up with ways to get around the problems of our world. How did the universe start? Many religons offer answers to this question. However the weakness is in the answer. They completely avoid answering the question by comming up with stories. Religon is a step from science which is a step from truth. Many religons describe people being created from clay or straw, how does that compare to our understanding of the human body today? What religon predicted atoms? In truth most religons prevent the growth of human knowledge. In providing answers to questions, the make it seem that the answer has already been found, however in many cases this is not true. Remeber what happened to those who first postulated that the Earth was not the center of the universe?

Religon prevents any stucture from happening that could help the growth of human intelligence. In reality religon really is a weakness, a sign that us as humans are still in a relitivly primitive state of being. Eventually we willl know ennough about our universe to no longer need religon, when we reach this point religion will no longer be needed to be a crutch for people to fall back on. If people can accept the universe, they can be content, and in being content they will find happyness.

 

[TENYEARS]

what is your truth tenyears... and how will understanding it save our planet or future. Belief in truth is still belief no matter how defineed.

Also on Matter/Gravity... you claim that understanding it has changed you, how can you understand something that no one truly understands...

Do you know the existence of the graviton... is matter really made up of strings viberating in 11 different dimensions. Your truth is what I consider belief... for you have no way of knowing its truth. Beliving in truth is still believing.

by the way do you use a language translator when posting?

lol, like I said I do not believe I have been a witness to truth. There is no belief.

I will never say that I understand something that no one truly understands for there have been those in the past, those of the present and those who will be who all understand what I understand. It is part of being human to be able to answer this, to see this. Science is a burocracy of those who want to make names for themselves and to make their mark on the world. It is what holds us back from acknowlging the truth as a fact(still an object to existence to most). I do understand that which the world is made. There is no doubt because it is experience itself. I was a witness to that which science can only assume.

The embarassing thing is those in science who speak of things do not comprehend the implications of what they present. This is not to their inability but to their disinterest in the very thing which they do. They are afraid to look out into the unknown for what they might find. Hide little rabbits. I am not being mean, it is only what is. Not wrong not right only cause and effect. The effect, the effect I will not look anymore.

 

[CharlesP]

Feeble minds

Religion is indeed a sign of a feeble mind. To understand what this means and to predict what it means just remember Easter Island.
They built huge statues to their gods to bribe them into producing a good harvest. As the resources were depleted by overpopulation they built more and more larger statues. Finally when the food crisis reached the starvation point they realized that the statues were to the wrong god and tore them all down. Unfortunately this also failed but by then most of them had died.
I expect the same will be true as the USA becomes more religious and fundamentalist. Mandatory prayer in all schools, loyalty oaths and killing of all gays and atheists will have to occur to appease jesus as the oil runs out. Then when that doesn't work, jews, buddists and all minorities will have to go. Finally that will fail too but by then there will be few Americans left.

 

[TENYEARS]

There has never been such thing as a feeble mind in the history of all time. In order to know this you would have to understand what intelligence is. The question is did they really starve at easter island? Was it not on the ocean? Are there not fish? I am not satisfied with an scientists review of what happened, but I would be interested in the facts.

People who are hungry for power distort the symbolism of truth for their own gain. Hilter was one. You are correct of what will happen to some degree the question is will it be out of truth or human nature. I think human nature. If religion was not here they would use something else. So is it religon that causes these affects or is it the unconcous existence of humanity as a whole? It is not that man cannot understand, it is that what? Tell me the what and walk free. Who can tell me the what? Why do humans not understand the truth. There is only one thing and one thing alone. The answer is so amazing and so simple your mind will shatter when it hits you. Where will you be when it does?

 

[CharlesP]

There has never been such thing as a feeble mind in the history of all time.

You need to go see the folks in a nursing home. Then go visit all the churches.

In order to know this you would have to understand what intelligence is. The question is did they really starve at easter island? Was it not on the ocean? Are there not fish? I am not satisfied with an scientists review of what happened, but I would be interested in the facts.

They depleted the fish, like everything else. The population shrank from 10,000 to 300.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

TEn years you mentioned if religon was not there they would use something else [people] what is it that they would use. Do you feel that people will ever be able to evolve beyond this need to have religon or ... whatever you want to call it.

 

[TENYEARS]

You need to go see the folks in a nursing home. Then go visit all the churches.


They depleted the fish, like everything else. The population shrank from 10,000 to 300.

The oceans were rich and abundant at that time. Hell the oceans were fairly rich and abundant 100 years ago anything beyond that they were thriving. Fish travel in schools any many of the large fish could feed a few familys for a month. There were also other things to eat. Did you ever think it was potentially a disease or a type of diffiency causes by natural causes or a large hurricane or tropical storm which desimated the Island. There are so many potential possibilities. The facts create are pieces of a puzzle of which humans like to fill in the missing spots. This creates a possibility but not an actuality. They take the probability and make it a bandwagon and everyone jumps on. This to me is no different than the analysis of religion.

The poeple of nursing homes are not of feabile mind. The question is where are their minds.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

People can be feeble minded, intelligence is something impossible to generalize. There are girls in my school who don't know the sun is a star rather than a planet, their minds are not able to learn at rates of others. When you compare this intellect with say Einstein, then indeed their mind is feeble as is their intelligence.

 

[TENYEARS]

TEn years you mentioned if religon was not there they would use something else [people] what is it that they would use. Do you feel that people will ever be able to evolve beyond this need to have religon or ... whatever you want to call it.

Yes they will. Humanity will reach a state which science and facets of relgion will blend into one. For science will prove the existence of not only precogniction but god. Lol The scientists will fall back on their heals and the relgious will be angry for what science will attempt to take over. There will be great turmoil for those who will deny on both sides. There will also be those in the middle are from both sides they will be in utter amazement of the whole thing.

Religion is also this: A social exchange in a community. When gathered together in a place to be quite together or to listen to the silence or a good sermon of our human nature and to think in a time when some are so busy with there lives to do so. In one church it was to listen to the voice what had to be angel for her voice was that way. Maybe there is hope that the people can sing in a single voice for humanity itself. Who knows. Don't look at the relgion, look at the truth that exists within it. Discard the rest. Are you one of those who says an album is awsome when it absolutely sucks becasuse there is only one or two good songs on it. Look at it for what it is and take what is good and leave what is not true. If truth is your interest, then follow your instincts and you will be brought before truth.

Not to end on a negative note but Hitler used Nieche. He took his words out of context and exploited them. He placed all of Germany as the genetically choosen race. Not.. lol All races have facets of genetic make up which make them compatible with their environment. The mountain people of the Andes, the Eskimos, etc.. All have traits to make them compatible. Was this not science, a warped Darwinism which almost took over the world?

 

[TENYEARS]

People can be feeble minded, intelligence is something impossible to generalize. There are girls in my school who don't know the sun is a star rather than a planet, their minds are not able to learn at rates of others. When you compare this intellect with say Einstein, then indeed their mind is feeble as is their intelligence.

Don't be so judgemental. Watch the original planet of the apes movie sometimes. There is a scene where Charlton Heston is being questioned of Ape Law to prove his intelliegence and then tell me what you think. Do you think that it is not that their minds are capable or is it that their interests lie elsewhere? If you place others below you there must also be those above. Place no one above or below for that is the nature of truth. Do you know where real true compassion comes from? It is not relgion, it is absolute truth and understanding. In this state you see not only what is but the pain of others. Judge not but see and look deeply and you will also know them. In knowing them you will like them and understand how it came to be. In that understanding will you judge? We judge when we do not understand or else what is to judge?

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Amen and will you please marry me :!)

 

[Akihiro]

TENYEARS, you used lots of big words and also sentences that do not have any link between each of them in their content. In other words, your paragraphs do not make any sense. One should never confuse his opponents just to let yourself to have the last say. Your aguments are also, no offense, mostly based on false statements.

The natives of Easter Isalnds indeed underwent mass starvation. Click here:

http://www.netaxs.com/~trance/rapanui.html

The population of Easter Island reached its peak at perhaps more than 10,000, far exceeding the capabilities of the small island's ecosystem. Resources became scarce, and the once lush palm forests were destroyed - cleared for agriculture and moving the massive stone Moai. In this regard, Easter Island has become, for many, a metaphor for ecological disaster.

And would their supposed Gods allow something like this to happen to their worshippers?

Thereafter, a thriving and advanced social order began to decline into bloody civil war and, evidently, cannibalism.

Contacts with western "civilization" proved even more disastrous for the island population which, through slavery and disease, had decreased to approximately 111 by the turn of the century.

 

[Akihiro]

One must be aware of the definition of the word religion to make this dicussion (not argument) cruising on the right track.

Defintion of 'religion' by The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."

For example: Concerning right behavior, Christianity offers the belief that the incorrect or negative action is to sin (in Greek) is simply missing the mark. Now, that would be an acceptable place to start. If we postulate that all humans want and intend to make progress (vague and varied as we may understand it as individuals), then what I said about sin would be a corollary of sorts. Next, Christianity offers tangible imagery as representations for certain states of being. If you sin, you are missing the mark and somehow ignorant of what you must do to achieve your goal, and thus are in the dark/in hell and lost. Now, really if you are sinning and are not aware of it and think you are doing fine, then how will you know what the right action is? Just as in Socrate's Cave Metaphor, the people were unaware that they were seeing shadows in place of truth.

We don't have to force ourselves to believe in religion just to avoid sinning. (I've also met plenty of Christians who sin without guilt) Besides, there is a disproportionately smaller percentage of atheists in jail than the percentage of atheists in that particular country. Poets can also offer more romantic and expressive representations of certain states of being too. Besides, our mum, dad, teachers, as well as experience with human relationships teaches us what that is right and wrong too.

Furthermore, be aware of what religions are - the worship of a higher being or higher beings. That's the core principle, the rest are secondary.

 

[TENYEARS]

Akihiro, you are young and have much to learn. Decisions are what we have when we do not understand. Do not decide on truth for truth needs no decsion. You have much much to learn and those lessons will not be found in books.

Note: Because something is written does not mean it is true. The definition of religon in the dictionary is incorrect. The person who wrote it did not understand.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

TENYEARS...
you assume a lot of things about people, also I can not accept an argument about how some minds are not feeble based on the planet of the apes movie, apps minds are not as capable as our owns, they are not distracted, they just aren't as cabable. It is true that no one uses their full potential of their mind, and yet it is also true that some people are infact smarter than others. My sister has down syndrome, and I love her, but I know that she is not going to grow up as smart as she would if she did not have it.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

1. For science will prove the existence of not only precogniction but god.

2. The scientists will fall back on their heals and the relgious will be angry for what science will attempt to take over.

3. There will be great turmoil for those who will deny on both sides. There will also be those in the middle are from both sides they will be in utter amazement of the whole thing.

4. In one church it was to listen to the voice what had to be angel for her voice was that way.

5. Maybe there is hope that the people can sing in a single voice for humanity itself.

6. Don't look at the relgion, look at the truth that exists within it.

7. Are you one of those who says an album is awsome when it absolutely sucks becasuse there is only one or two good songs on it.

8. If truth is your interest, then follow your instincts and you will be brought before truth.

TENYEARS RESPONSE an anaylsis

i broke down your repsone and am going to respond to specific sentences, again I will ask if you are using a language translator such as altavista babelfish for your responses...

1. For one thing, I dought that it would ever be science that proves the existence of God, for one thing I dought anyone ever will be cause I don't believe God exists. However getting around my own personal beliefs why and how would science prove the existence of God, that is something science can't do. Proving the existence of God would most likely happen from God revealing himself in some extradornay act. The role of science would be to prove that the events were indeed extraordinary and that what happen could not happen with our laws of physics. Also what happens if science proves that there is no need for God. Assuming we get to the point where we can explain everything about science. How we were created and why we are here.

2. what? Hypothetically speaking let's say you are correct in your presumption that one day God will be proven to exist and it was done with the aid of science. Why would science fall back on its heals, it just have aided in the bigest discovery ever. It would be a joyous day for science and religon both. IT would also provide answers for questions in science. I would project that both the religous and scientists which would then become one group as scientists would be religous would get allong great.

3. WHAT? Where is the turmoil is science is used to prove relgion. If it is proved then it is proved. PROVED implies that it can't be wrong, and if this is true than there will be no turmoil, just a lot of shock. There will be no denying sides because in proving God with science they would JOIN SIDES in essence there would be no sides.

4. WHAT... it does not add anything to the response

5. I can see the part about singing in a single voice, but why for humanity itself.

6. I am going to assume you are talking about organized religon and looking pass to the meaning of religon and yet you discussed the benefits of organized religon with the sermon and angel response.

7. THis was the most ackward placement for this sentence ever. It really has nothing to do with anything at all. On a positive note it gave me a good laugh.

8. You present a second option, look to my insticts for truth, but I am also supose to look beyond religon for truth... I hate to tell you but these would produce two separate truths... my insticts tell me that there is no God, and peoples belief in religon is a result of cult like brainwashing that all people are subjected to constantly by the society we live in.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Akihiro, you are young and have much to learn. Decisions are what we have when we do not understand. Do not decide on truth for truth needs no decsion. You have much much to learn and those lessons will not be found in books.

Note: Because something is written does not mean it is true. The definition of religon in the dictionary is incorrect. The person who wrote it did not understand.

7 entries found for religion.
re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion



So what is the definition of religon, and how is it that you know it

 

[TENYEARS]

I know it because I experienced what it's founders did. To be or not to be and that really is the question.

 

[Moses]

An important I want to add

Wow! I did not come here since two days and i thought the thread was over,
Thanks God is it alive!

In short, I have a different definiton for religion, remeber the "Dictionary" definition you use is for English Language, which its origin form European societites [UK] with all the aspects of society and culture to be taken into consideration.

The definition i use is : Religion is [the ture religon] The sum of the Faith in God and the system "rules" the He puts for Humans to follow.

By that definiton, "True Religion" is not a weakness. Since its source is Perfect. The weaknesses that may occur is becuase of curroption by the society organizers from people, or if that religion is not from God, or have been changed by people. In the last cases i mentioned. Religion here is subjective to have good and bad staff, AS ANY HUMAN SYSTEM.

Since Religion have a great influence, the errors there if it happened will be severe. And the human history shows that.

Does this make sense or not? I hope so

 

[TENYEARS]

Amen and will you please marry me :!)

Lol, my wife would not be too pleased if I took a second wife. There is someone who is waiting for you though. You don't even need to look. Just do what you do, forget the search and the rest will fall into place.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

Wow! I did not come here since two days and i thought the thread was over,
Thanks God is it alive!

In short, I have a different definiton for religion, remeber the "Dictionary" definition you use is for English Language, which its origin form European societites [UK] with all the aspects of society and culture to be taken into consideration.

The definition i use is : Religion is [the ture religon] The sum of the Faith in God and the system "rules" the He puts for Humans to follow.

By that definiton, "True Religion" is not a weakness. Since its source is Perfect. The weaknesses that may occur is becuase of curroption by the society organizers from people, or if that religion is not from God, or have been changed by people. In the last cases i mentioned. Religion here is subjective to have good and bad staff, AS ANY HUMAN SYSTEM.

Since Religion have a great influence, the errors there if it happened will be severe. And the human history shows that.

Does this make sense or not? I hope so

I would argue that your defintion would make religon in its pure form helpful, but that is different from the question of it being a weakness of society. I believe that religon can be a great thing... it can be something for people who have nothing else. It has done great work with charities, and it is able to control population into acting in specific ways... like you said it is a human system. However this does not mean that it is not a weakness in society. To me the fact that people are able to be manipulated so easily by religon, and brought up with religon, shows the weakness in religon. Religon is often merely a tool used by people to gain something for themselves.

 

[Tom McCurdy]

I know it because I experienced what it's founders did. To be or not to be and that really is the question.

What do you mean you expereinced what it's founders did... you seem to be referring to some deep religous realization or revelation that happened to you, would you mind sharing your experience that brought you so close with religon? Also what do you mean by the shakespere.--To believe or not to believe?

 

[Moses]

Tom McCurdy, I do agree in all what you said, I do completely believe that "Human is weak" and thus we strengthen our selves by "tools" like science which gives us some sort of power. Religoin as well is the same issue since we "need" as a person or as a society and thus we are "weak".

However, an important thing i should mention is: A society without a religion is really weak, i mean wekaer than a society which has "true religion". Since the "nice push" the religion give to people that society will lack, add to that the mechanism of that "system". Still that society may be better than another society who suffers severly from curroption in applying the "true religion" or applying a changed version of that religion, or a human mae one.

Our societies, we humans, will be weak always, true religion make it stronger, if not, it depends onb the whole picture to judge if without religion is better or with some corrution and misusing of religion.

I will listen to the Universe master is he really send a message to me