Does Religon Show Weakness in Society

Does Religon Show Weakness in Society

  • Yes

    Votes: 29 59.2%
  • No (atheist)

    Votes: 8 16.3%
  • No (theist)

    Votes: 12 24.5%

  • Total voters
    49
66
0
Well, i will not discuess the evolution theory here,
But by seeing some thoeris as evolution,
I can say as well that some scientiest were planned to destroy humanity and morals by thier wrong stupid claims, "As Darwin sayin dat African are closer to monkeys than European white man, and thus it is natural that the white man will whipe the Black man according to the competition [forgot the enlish word] on resources....DARWIN IS A LOSER..the only fact i am sure form it from my first glance looking at his stupid claims...

Still, lots of evolution staff does not condratics my faith, but may contradict Christianity..which itself contradict with science in many places sand science wins usually [except here about evolution, Christianity acheive total victory against Darwin...]

I might be out of track a little bit..and hoping we can discuess this in new/another thread....
 
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Tenyears, I did not call you a prophet. I feel that your views are somewhat New Age-inspred. Which god are you talking about?

Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)
 
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Lol, it was not you or any one on this forum which called me a prophet and since there is or never was such a thing the words are irrelevant. Like I said god chooses no one. There is only one god out of which all things were created as physics will one day understand. lol My understanding comes from seeing the almighty, from having visions, from seeing another healed with physical evidence and a physical by product outside himself. By understanding what gravity is what matter is. This is what creates the words that come out of my mouth or that pour through my fingers. Then again, has anything other than that ever caused anything?
 
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Padford said:
Weakness is in all societies, it is everywhere, from physical to social structures, and indeed it is omnipresent in humans. BUT I think religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity.
Yes, religion may be a means to define what we don’t know, what science cannot tell us - but is not much of science undefined and unproven itself? We cannot be so quick to say religion shows weakness in society – religion gives peace of mind to those who believe it, and to those who don’t it gives them a wondering sensation, makes them think: is it true? And if a persuasive leader, someone of authority comes along and says “God exists,” they’re going to turn a few heads, and make people wonder if they are correct in saying ‘there is no god’.
If we look back into history, for example, we can see how leaders manipulated religion, or lead the masses or the church structure to protect their divine sovereignty. Take the great Napoleon I, for example; he remodelled the Catholic church in the early 1800's so he could strengthen his society, every Sunday he had his priests, ex-monks and cardinals preaching his word, perverting the bible (like MANY, many people have done) to suit his ideals, propaganda infiltrated those people every week, they hear ‘Napoleon is a divine leader, follow him, for he is the second coming,’ once, and they dismiss it – after a year or two of hearing it, they believe it…what I’m saying is that religion brings people together, it is a means to define life and death, and it is a way of getting political support; this masterpiece of either completely false gospel or celestial truth does certainally not show weakness in society.
When you speak of your examples... does this not show the weakness of society. Religon is a tool, a useful tool to control people. It can bring a sense of hope to people. This fact alone shows how it is a weakness... it shows that we are in the first stages of evolution. We will eventually not need to be told how things we don't understand happened. Posidon will not control the seas forever.

Relgion just shows how humans can be molded.

Also your comments about
"religion is vital in binding people with different ideals, together; people who would not usually come together do because of their similar belief in a god or figure or divinity. " is also incorrect in my opinion. Relgion brings isolated people together... true, but when you view it from a larger standpoint is has been the thing that has prevented people from comming together as a whole. In bringinging isolated people together you create barriers whose thickness still plagues our society today. Religon has been the root cause of many wars... people like Napolean use religon to manipulate people to fight for their own motives. In this fact religon is a weakness of society.
 
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TENYEARS said:
The arrogance is beyond me. If you little fools and old fools alike only understood. Your responses are out of weakness. Out of unconcious unused mind. Young stupid fools. My answer is YES. For the it is out of weakness that even science is formed. You must create a method for the thing you do not understand. If you understand it, experience it what is there to create? Once the one who unerstood is gone there is a need to fill a void because why? Because you are not experiening what they did.

Understanding creates what is percieved as strength. It is not strength, it is that in pure understanding there can be no fear only understanding because the experiencer is in a pure state of witness which leaves nothing left for fear.
could you please restate this .... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.
 

Evo

Mentor
22,875
2,350
Thallium said:
Evo, excuse my rudeness, but I think you want to know why I believe in God so that you may understand more of the craziness of believers. I mean no harm, but I cannot help being skeptic. I believe in God because I chose to. I have had my doubts of course, but I can feel God's safety and love whenever I am willing to, when I pray and spend time thinking about God. I never take part in rituals and I dislike the idea that traditions are important. The most important element in my faith is my free contact with God. I pray that God will use me to do good to others. So when I act unkindly, that is a cause of m beng tempted by my human nature. My rage, my irritation and so on. That was a little more than you had asked for, Evo, but I hope it is not to your disliking. ;)
No, you said that your belief in God wasn't for emotional reasons or the need to feel you aren't alone, which I said were the reasons usually stated by people that didn't buy into organized religion, but still maintained a belief in God. I was sincerely wondering what your reasons were.
 
Darwin wasn't a loser. His theories were very insightful regardless of whether they were right or not. Concerning the offensive claim he may have made towards white men whiping out the black men, that was probably incorrect. However, if white men are more evolved on average then it would make sense that black men would eventially become a minority.

This has idea has no real signifigance. Why are black men refered to as black men still? There are few instances where it is necessary to make reference to a black man. Black skin should be considered a variation, like black hair, green eyes, or large hands. If some black men are on average less evolved and can't keep up with society, they might become a minority or end up in lower conditions. We already see this in countries. I don't see how this correlates with prejudice or any prejudice Darwin may or may not have had.
 

Chronos

Science Advisor
Gold Member
11,398
738
Religion suffers the same problem as any other non-mathematical approach to describing reality. Organized religion is, I think, not nearly so much a belief system as it is a sociological mechanism to establish and impose social order. It has evolved into the generally more efficient [and less bloody] form of modern governments and the rule of law. Organized religion has, and rightly so, been subsumed under the umbrella of politics. The need for such subcultures will inevitably decline, assuming government and the rule of law becomes increasingly utilitarian. Personal belief systems need not, and should not driven out of society. We simply will outgrow the urge to unjustly impose them on others. It is a good thing to have personal principles, and a sense of purpose and responsibility to promote the welfare of the local and global community. I believe there is a higher order than serving personal interests and ambitions: promoting the survival and advancement of all humanity. Is that a religion or must you have a higher authority, a God, to appeal to? Are you weak if you do and strong if you don't, or vice-versa?
 
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TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?
 
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Well, I DO BELEIVE in God, and my reasons are not build in emotion. [ I HATE to have a blind faith....simply]

There is a saying from Prophet Mohammad [Last muslim prophet, as what muslims claimed] which i found it explain in a way the emotional part we are spekaing about here, he is saying -narrating from his God-:

[I created all me servant "humans" obeying me and beleiving in me, then the evil doers make them corrupted and take thme away from thier religion]

The saying of that man [Mohammad] which he claims he is sended to us by God sounds exaclty sa what i think persoanlly: We Do have in our nature "emotions" to beleive in God, in addition to the logical proof i.e. God greated us with an emotional potential to beleive in Him. This never by any way mean that the logical process to proof God has to be mix with emotions...
 
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Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case...imagin how all of us are weak that we need food, drink, [religion?]..etc I totallly agree if you took the question from this angle,

However, we here took the Q from the point which is : Is a sociecty weak if it has religion running in the society? [I will not discuess in this pot about that]

I will clarify more the way we saw the Q by mentioning it in the opposite way: If the society does not have a religion going in it, is it a sign that it is strong?

The way you see the Q and you answer upon it i totally agree about it [ agree about the YES] I will found it odd if somebody will disagree from the members here :smile:
 
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Tom McCurdy said:
could you please restate this .... I think I am getting what you are saying but I want to make sure I have what you meant correct.
Tom if I explain it I join science and religion and if I do not maybe you will understand them. If so god help you.
 
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Thallium said:
TenYears, I understand what you are saying ,except, which God do you believe in? Has this God left any words for Mankind, like the Bible. the Koran or anything else? Or is he but a vision, a pantheistic being that you with your own eyes, and only yours, can see inside of your surroundings?
Thallium, I do not believe in god. I saw god and my god is the god which is only in one place and that is the place we all need to look. When we look in that place will you be able to find a place where god is not? My vision was not of a relative object but of a mind of which I was part of that extended beyond my skin. There was a day when I witnessed the very facet of creation itself. I was very very young, but that experience was I suppose one of the most profound. I am just a normal person When you read words of another you see the compression of sometimes a lifetime of thought and yet on a day to day experience we trudge forward doing what we need to do. There is no eternal utopia no savior and yet there is no external pain but there is an eternal and that is fair but most of all that is reality. In someways reality itself seems uncomprenshible and yet what is even more so which people will one day understand is that the present day view is even more logically incomprehensible.
 
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Moses said:
Well, TENYEARS, I do totally agree with you that if we NEED religion it means we are WEAK, YES, but this apply to all humans, even athiests are WEAK in ths case.
Lol I was going to post that myself about athiests. Belief in any form is weakness for true strength which is not really strength is not believing and not deciding. It is clearing away and waiting until the pressure from the void created by a desire to see opens us to the reality that is. Honesty and the desire to understand will pave the way for anyone.

Happy Thanksgiving to all even if you do not celebrate. May you find truth in today and all that you see.
 
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How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.
 
Tom McCurdy said:
How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.
I don't believe that there's such a thing as "no belief". Belief dominates our lives in one way or another. Even the disbelief of a supreme diety still constitutes a belief.

And belief in the "truth", my, sounds a little like a preacher.
 
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I wasn't refering to religion with truth... sorry. I meant for example something like a person who believes the earth is a cube versus someone who believes the earth is an oblate spheroid. I believe that latter and i can back it up with scientific data... i believe in the truth... In religon it is impossible to ahve truth currently...

infact does anyone ever think that religon will be able to be disproved...
 
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Tom McCurdy,
i think that religion could be disproved, and could be proved as well...

Simply, if X religion is from God, and that X religion shown a proof that it is from God, thus it is from God.

Now we have reached the bottom question of accepting religion according to me: Using mind ONLY, can that X religion supprot its claim that it is from God, i.e a "proper correct" religion? If it does, thus it is from God and it is proofed in this way, and vise versa.

In this way, I do have a religion, and after a really, really indepth analysis i chose mine [it is not our topic here what is my religion, i guess!] and in the same way i disprove other religions, even the level of disproving that i conclude was different from one rleiiogn to another

[i.e some i conclude that they are absolutely or vast majority not from God. some i can clearly see that their origin are from God but then people changed it so these religions become "out of the track", and the one i had i conclude it is form God, even many people did mistakes and put thier own issues while practising it which it is totally wrong, but the pure true info still there for any one to pick easily...]

An important issue to notify, the proofs that i found them valid are by no means less than the proof you know to believe that the Earth is as what you believe... [imean not less in strength]
 
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proving religon

proving religon indeed is possible...


if all of a sudden all the christians disappear... **** I guess I was wrong.
more to come... out of time
 
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th3 point is that religon is weakness... its humans comming up with ways to control others and to explain what otherwise can't be explained.
 
no, it provides comfort, although it is misunderstood
 
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Tom, I tend to disagree with you on relgion in terms of the religion defining what they do not understand in terms of relgious experience or actual reality. The symbolism many times is created because it defines a deeper understanding than hard cold discrete facts. For example if I were blind how would you describe the word blue to me. What it means. Maybe I would place a piece of ice in your hands. That is how relgion is. It attempts to show what is out of the experience of another something which approximates something simliar. To pave a way for that thought to flow. I tell you these things are real for I have experienced them and have no doubt yet to hear my words is just belief one way or another unless one experiences them for one self. This is what makes the real part of religion, much like the real part of science. There are those of religion who do not understand like there are those of science. They are one and the same. The experience of truth in science is like a relgious experience. When I discovered what gravity and matter were on that fateful day I discovered not only the greatest facet of science, but I lived through what some would define as a reglious experience for two days. I will give you a hint, it was what relgion describes as the living water. This is a physical experience in a very subtle form and is part of the complete reality all of humanity will one day understand.
 
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Impossible? said:
no, it provides comfort, although it is misunderstood
in what way do you feel its misunderstood?
 
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Tom McCurdy said:
proving religon indeed is possible...


if all of a sudden all the christians disappear... **** I guess I was wrong.
more to come... out of time
Sorry Tom McCurdy, i did not get your point completly,

Still, as a comment which it may not be in its place, when we talk abuot religion, i guess it is not wise to limit our discussion to Christianity, never means if the "technological most advanced" countries has Christianty as the most spread religion there that christianty IS the religion, simply NO..

Personally, I beleive that Jesus was from God, and he is not God, and he brought a strenght to the society, but when the Roman Empire change Christianity to become waht the Emperor want [e.g Jesus is God, Trinity, mixing with some pagans issues...etc] its becomes not the religion of Jesus anymore even the basic origin of Christianty before that change was from there [I know, we are not discuessing Christianity here..but i am just giving an example] and this change which made Christianty weaker, and thus make it weakining the society [a good example is the Church dictatorship in the Mideaval ages] even the original part which remained among the changes ones were actually making a strong point in society [i.e love your neighbour, love you God, do not kill...etc]
 
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Tom McCurdy said:
How is belief in the truth weakness. If you have no belief that would in some cases show more weakness than a false belief.
No belief means I do not know and I will attempt to understand what is but will not settle for belief. It means I will strive to understand until I do understand the truth and nothing less than the truth. Truth is an experience. The greatest human achievements seen and unseen are born from this state. Belief in truth will not change humanity or save our planet or our future. Humanity can only be saved by it's understanding/experience of the truth.

The weakness of belief in the truth means I follow because I do not experience. If I experience what is to follow? I blaze my own path before the truth that is. I find it in every step of my existance. Science/Religion one in the same. How many in science if not at a minimum the greater majority do not understand the very foundation of physics itself. Matter/Gravity. How can humans live their lives and not know what they are, what they are made of, where they came from and where they are going? How can one not need to know this? Live your whole life and not know? No not me. I do not condemn anyone for not knowing for at one time in our existence we were all there and yet I only look to that which I am attached. That is this planet the people that surround me and our paths into the future. When I think of that it motivates me to speak these words.

"He that find the spirt within him go no more out." Humanity should think over these words for they speak of it's destiny.
 

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