Does temperature affect pitch?

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    Pitch Temperature
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether air temperature affects the pitch of notes produced by musical instruments or the human voice. Participants explore the relationship between temperature, frequency, and pitch, as well as the physical properties of instruments that may be influenced by temperature changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that temperature affects the physical properties of instruments, such as string tension and reverberation.
  • Others argue that thermal expansion or contraction of materials in the instrument has a more significant effect on pitch than air density changes.
  • It is noted that in wind instruments, pitch is influenced by the speed of sound, which is temperature-dependent, while in string instruments, pitch is more related to string tension.
  • Some participants mention that vocal pitch is primarily affected by tension in the vocal cords, with gas properties also playing a role, but temperature changes may not significantly alter pitch due to compensatory adjustments by the vocalist.
  • A participant suggests a method to test the effects of temperature on tuning by exposing an instrument to cold and then warming it up, while another cautions against rapid temperature changes due to potential harm to the instrument.
  • There is a discussion about the effects of inhaling different gases, such as helium and sulfur hexafluoride, on voice pitch, with some participants sharing personal anecdotes related to this.
  • One participant challenges the idea that thermal expansion is the most important factor affecting pitch, citing specific coefficients of thermal expansion and speed of sound changes.
  • Another participant raises the possibility that the tuning knobs of a guitar may also contribute to detuning when exposed to temperature changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the influence of temperature on pitch, with no consensus reached on which factors are most significant.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge various assumptions about the effects of temperature on different materials and the complexity of how these factors interact with pitch perception.

brewAP2010
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This may seem like a fairly simple question, but I want to know if the temperature of the air affects the pitch of a note produced by say an instrument or by someones voice? I play guitar and I know that if I leave my guitar in the cold for too long (or the heat) the tuning gets all messed up. I also know that air temperature affects the frequency of a note but I'm not sure if frequency and pitch are the same thing. Clarification would be much appreciated, Thank You.
 
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brewAP2010 said:
This may seem like a fairly simple question, but I want to know if the temperature of the air affects the pitch of a note produced by say an instrument or by someones voice? I play guitar and I know that if I leave my guitar in the cold for too long (or the heat) the tuning gets all messed up. I also know that air temperature affects the frequency of a note but I'm not sure if frequency and pitch are the same thing. Clarification would be much appreciated, Thank You.

Yes.

And yes, frequency and pitch are effectively the same thing. (Frequency is a physical measurement of the cycles of a sounds wave; pitch is a subjective percerption of that frequency.)
 
Also, the temperature will affect the physical properties of the instrument itself, such as string tension and reverberation.
 
I would bet that thermal expansion (or contraction in this case) of the various materials in your instrument has a much more pronounced effect than the density of air. Secondarily, you may, in some cases, have material stiffen and/or embrittle as well, and that would also have an effect.

If you really wanted to test this, I would say leave your instrument outside, then bring it into a warm room to play while cold. That should be pretty instructive.
 
In wind instruments, the pitch depends on speed of sound, which depends on temperature of the air. In string instruments, on tension in the string, which can also depend on temperature if the thermal expansion/contraction coefficients aren't matched by these of the frame. For voice, the main factor is tension in the vocal chords. Gas properties do affect the pitch of voice, but the temperature changes won't make a big enough change that the person wouldn't correct for it with vocal chords.
 
I knew that when i leave my guitar in like my car and then try to bring it inside to play it the tuning gets all screwy...

K^2 said:
For voice, the main factor is tension in the vocal chords.

So what things effect tension in your vocal chords...i know that like eating and drinking do, but is that it?
 
brewAP2010 said:
So what things effect tension in your vocal chords...i know that like eating and drinking do, but is that it?

You know what happens when you inhale helium. Ever seen what happens with you inhale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XbjFn3aqE"?
 
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DaveC426913 said:
Ever seen what happens with you inhale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XbjFn3aqE"?

Unfortunately, I have been deprived of that opportunity. I ordered a balloon at Ducks last night, but the buggers were sold out. Maybe next week...
 
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MagnetDave said:
If you really wanted to test this, I would say leave your instrument outside, then bring it into a warm room to play while cold. That should be pretty instructive.

I wouldn't suggest that. Rapid changes in humidity and temperature are generally not good for your instrument. But yes, the change in temp is what is causing your guitar to detune.
 
  • #10
Danger said:
Unfortunately, I have been deprived of that opportunity. I ordered a balloon at Ducks last night, but the buggers were sold out. Maybe next week...

They had SF6 balloons at ducks?
 
  • #11
MagnetDave said:
I would bet that thermal expansion (or contraction in this case) of the various materials in your instrument has a much more pronounced effect than the density of air.

Danger said:
Also, the temperature will affect the physical properties of the instrument itself, such as string tension and reverberation.

A lot of people think this, but it's not true. (Well, Danger's is true, but it's not the most important factor). The speed of sound in air changes by of order 10-3 per degree. The coefficient of thermal expansion is of order 10-5 per degree.
 
  • #12
DaveC426913 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XbjFn3aqE"?

Hexafluoride.

Note that while inhaling helium is safe - it is light so it will leave the lungs very fast - this is not the case with SF6. It is inert and not toxic, but it is heavy and tends to stay in the bottom of the lungs, blocking access of a fresh air.
 
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  • #13
Vanadium 50 said:
A lot of people think this, but it's not true. (Well, Danger's is true, but it's not the most important factor). The speed of sound in air changes by of order 10-3 per degree. The coefficient of thermal expansion is of order 10-5 per degree.

Rather than thermal expansion of the strings themselves (or a change in elasticity), what about thermal expansion of the tuning knobs? If the de-tuning of the guitar is permanent it has to be these, presumably if they contract even a little, with a good few cm of string wrapped around them it could lead to a noticeable alteration in pitch.

If you have the guitar in the cold for a long time, then bring it to room temperature and play after an hour, and it's still not in tune, then I'd have a guess that it's the tuning knobs rather than any effect on the strings directly.
 
  • #14
ok thanks for the info.
 

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