Dropped Out of the Same Grad School Thrice

[Geremia]

Is it normal for my interest in pursuing a MS and PhD to keep waning and for me to keep holding on thinking it will increase? Am I just being lazy, or should I truly shift gears and leave academia?

 

[TMFKAN64]

Most people complete their graduate degree without a break.

I've known a few (myself included) who took a break, but then came back and finished.

I've never known anyone who took off *twice* and actually finished.

Take out of that what you will.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If every time you go back to school you drop out, I wouldn't go back without a substantive tangible reason why this time it will be different.

 

[Geremia]

If every time you go back to school you drop out, I wouldn't go back without a substantive tangible reason why this time it will be different.

Is completely switching fields (hard sciences to humanities like philosophy) a "tangible reason?" Thanks

 

[Vanadium 50]

That's something you will have to decide. I certainly can't promise that you won't drop out. Again.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I agree with Vanadium. I am not trying to be discouraging, but you have a problem. You need to figure out why do you think you should do a PhD, and why is that reason NOT good enough for you to actually finish the degree. This is very important or else you'll keep dropping out, and this is not fair to you, and your prospective advisors.

 

[G01]

Before you decide to go back to grad school, even if in a different field, you need to figure out what your problem with grad school is, and if it will follow you into a different discipline.

Why do you keep dropping out? Do you not like your chosen field of study or is it the atmosphere of grad school in general (the long hours, isolation, obsessive nature of everyone around)? Though the subject matter may change, graduate school is graduate school.

 

[Geremia]

Before you decide to go back to grad school, even if in a different field, you need to figure out what your problem with grad school is

I would say it has a lot to do with not liking the university; it's too big and I feel I don't have anything in common with the other grad students. I have begun associating with people with different interests, too, such as philosophy, history, and classics instead of physics.

and if it will follow you into a different discipline.

Why do you keep dropping out? Do you not like your chosen field of study or is it the atmosphere of grad school in general (the long hours, isolation, obsessive nature of everyone around)?

Yes, the isolation is annoying. The only time I see my fellow grad students is during class, and classroom atmospheres are very "contrived."

Though the subject matter may change, graduate school is graduate school.

Yes, this is true. I do well if I am passionate about something. The question is finding what exactly that may be. I knew this would happen to me even as an undergrad freshman. Back then I was focused, determined, and passionate about physics, math, astronomy, research, and even foreign languages. Now I am struggling to reinvigorate my interest in something specific.

I agree with Vanadium. I am not trying to be discouraging, but you have a problem.

Indeed I wish more people would tell me that. It is actually encouraging to me. Their tacitness is actually more de-motivating.

You need to figure out why do you think you should do a PhD

Or even just a master's...

, and why is that reason NOT good enough for you to actually finish the degree. This is very important or else you'll keep dropping out, and this is not fair to you, and your prospective advisors.

Yes thank you for the advice. That's another problem: I didn't follow my advisor's advice as an undergrad and ended up going into a MS program I didn't like (too engineering-oriented), but it was a last resort. I didn't want to go back to the physics department here because it was worse, and this was after having been rejected from all 10 of the grad schools elsewhere to which I applied (thus, yes, even from my ~3, supposedly easy backups). But my interest had been waning since even before then anyways.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Do you like Optimization theory? If you do a PhD in Operations Research may be a path. I know a physicist in my group doing his PhD focusing in Particle Swarm Optimization techniques. Other Physicist focused in Mechanism design theory (but that's more economic theory).

Maybe you don't like physics or maybe you do? I guess that'll be the first question to ask yourself, and from them move on.

 

[Geremia]

Do you like Optimization theory? If you do a PhD in Operations Research may be a path. I know a physicist in my group doing his PhD focusing in Particle Swarm Optimization techniques. Other Physicist focused in Mechanism design theory (but that's more economic theory).

No, I don't know much about these topics. The http://www.princeton.edu/~hhalvors/teaching/philphysics.html" interests me, though.

Maybe you don't like physics or maybe you do?

Oh, I do like physics, just not the busywork of coursework, the miniscule opportunities to teach others, and the advisors of this particular department. Teaching is my passion. Eventually, I would like to teach at a liberal arts college.

I guess that'll be the first question to ask yourself, and from them move on.

Thanks for the input, though

 

[mathwonk]

After dropping out of one grad school and considering going back, I realized I was under a cloud at that school, and went to a new school with a fresh start, where I worked hard to make a good impression. It worked for me. Eventually I still had to do the same work, but no one was saying, oh that's the guy who didn't make it last time, so I probably felt a little less pressure. I would certainly not recommend going back to the same school repeatedly. Try something else.

In fact I am surprised they waste time on you three times. I recommend going somewhere that will insist you perform.

 

[Geremia]

After dropping out of one grad school and considering going back, I realized I was under a cloud at that school, and went to a new school with a fresh start, where I worked hard to make a good impression. It worked for me. Eventually I still had to do the same work, but no one was saying, oh that's the guy who didn't make it last time, so I probably felt a little less pressure.

Yes, I think it is probably pressure for me, too. The material is not that hard, but the pressure makes me lose motivation to do even that which is easier.

I would certainly not recommend going back to the same school repeatedly. Try something else.

That's the plan.

In fact I am surprised they waste time on you three times.

Yes, it is definitely not the best university.

I recommend going somewhere that will insist you perform.

Indeed
Thank you

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

Yes, the isolation is annoying. The only time I see my fellow grad students is during class, and classroom atmospheres are very "contrived."

Don't pay attention to this, in solitude I can think clearly with no distractions from others.

Newton excelled in his solitude, or so they say.

 

[mathwonk]

and remember you have something to offer too. they are not just doing you a favor to admit you. you have talent, and that is a valuable commodity. after that you both make a commitment, they to teach you and you to work. if both do their part, then you both gain from the relationship. a harder school is also a more interesting place to be, and easier to get motivated to do well at.

 

[Geremia]

Don't pay attention to this, in solitude I can think clearly with no distractions from others.

Newton excelled in his solitude, or so they say.

I agree. Solitude is very conducive to intellectual work, but it seems my professors kept wanting me to ask them for the answers instead of figuring them out with the textbook and homework. That is what annoyed me; it was just regurgitation.

and remember you have something to offer too. they are not just doing you a favor to admit you. you have talent, and that is a valuable commodity. after that you both make a commitment, they to teach you

Or at least try to teach me...

and you to work. if both do their part, then you both gain from the relationship. a harder school is also a more interesting place to be, and easier to get motivated to do well at.

I believe that. The problem is I didn't get admitted to those harder schools.

 

[Geremia]

An interesting thing happened to me as an undergrad applying to grad schools. Some schools to which I applied called my recommenders, my research advisors, asking them why there seemed to be a disconnect between my 3.3 GPA, average grades and the letters they wrote them for my applications. Apparently my grades and GRE told a totally different story than the letters. I had even been published, too. All in all, I slipped through cracks. Apparently in the past an undergrad research advisor would just call up the student's future research advisor, and that was the whole "application process." I think we have become overly dependent on GRE scores and GPAs.

 

[Ryker]

Apparently in the past an undergrad research advisor would just call up the student's future research advisor, and that was the whole "application process." I think we have become overly dependent on GRE scores and GPAs.

I assume this "overdependence", of which I'm not fully convinced yet, came about from the fact that grad schools have discovered that GPA and GRE scores are more closely correlated to what they define as a successful grad student, though.

 

[Geremia]

I assume this "overdependence", of which I'm not fully convinced yet, came about from the fact that grad schools have discovered that GPA and GRE scores are more closely correlated to what they define as a successful grad student, though.

What do they define as a successful grad student?

 

[Ryker]

I don't know, my guess is as good as yours here.

 

[twofish-quant]

Apparently in the past an undergrad research advisor would just call up the student's future research advisor, and that was the whole "application process." I think we have become overly dependent on GRE scores and GPAs.

I don't think that this ever happened.

 

[twofish-quant]

What do they define as a successful grad student?

One that finishes the program.

Educating a graduate student is a very time consuming expensive process, and if you have someone in the system that goes in and then drops out, it's a waste for everyone concerned, especially since you've rejected someone that could have made it to the end.

One reason graduate schools look at GPA's is that GPA's are a sign of how well you can go through bureaucratic hoops to get something done in the end.

The other thing that you have to realize is that in graduate school, you have a lot of freedom and very little structure. This can be a good thing. This can also be a bad thing. If you are waiting for someone to tell you want you should do, then this just isn't the way it works.

You *really* need to think about whether you are able and willing to finish the program, because if you aren't, it's not fair to some other person whose spot you are taking.