Dynamics. Inclined plane with friction coefficient

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a dynamics problem involving an inclined plane with friction. The original poster attempts to determine the friction coefficient based on the relationship between the time taken to ascend and descend the plane.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the time relationship between ascent and descent, questioning the clarity of the problem statement. Some suggest that the initial push given to the object may affect the time ratio, while others point out potential algebraic errors in the original poster's calculations.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the problem's setup, with some participants indicating that the original time relationship may have been misstated. The discussion has led to a reconsideration of the problem's conditions, but no consensus has been reached on the calculations themselves.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem statement may lack clarity regarding the initial conditions, specifically the push velocity, which is not specified. This has led to confusion about the expected time relationship between ascent and descent.

Pepealej
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I've got the following exercise, which I've done 3 times already and I think I haven't made any mistake:
A body is slid upwards through an inclined plane of angle [tex]\theta=15\degree[/tex]. Determine the friction coefficient of the body with the surface of the plane if the time it takes to go upwards [tex]t_a[/tex] is double the time it takes to go downwards [tex]t_b[/tex] ([tex]t_a=2t_b[/tex]).

Mi procedure is as follows:

The normal force: [tex]N=mg\cos(\theta)[/tex].

1. Upwards:

During the ascent the x componen of the weight and the friction force act in the same direction, therefore: [tex]a_a=-g\sin(\theta)-\mu g\cos(\theta)=-g(\sin(\theta)+\mu\cos(\theta))[/tex].

The ecuacion of space as a function of time is: [tex]x=2v_0 t_b -2g(\sin(\theta)+\mu\cos(\theta))t_b^2[/tex] (1).
The ecuation of speed as a function of time is: [tex]0=v_0 -2g(\sin(\theta)+\mu\cos(\theta))t_b[/tex] (2).

2. Downwards

During the descent the x component of the weight and the friction force act in opposite directions, therefore: [tex]a_a=-g\sin(\theta)+\mu g\cos(\theta)=-g(\sin(\theta)-\mu\cos(\theta))[/tex].

The ecuation of space as a function of time is: [tex]0=x-\frac{1}{2}g(\sin(\theta)-\mu\cos(\theta))t_b^2[/tex] (3).Combining (1), (2) and (3) we obtain:

[tex]\frac{1}{2}g(\sin(\theta)-\mu\cos(\theta))t_b^2=4g(\sin(\theta)+\mu\cos(\theta))t_b^2-2g(\sin(\theta)+\mu\cos(\theta))t_b^2[/tex]
[tex]\sin(\theta)-\mu\cos(\theta)=4\sin(\theta)+4\mu\cos(\theta)[/tex]
[tex]\mu=-\frac{3}{5}\tan(\theta)[/tex]

From here I deduce that a value for [tex]\mu[/tex], for with the conditions are met, doesn't exist. Is it correct?

Thanks! :)
 
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From the calculation, I deduce that the object is given an initial push up the plane, then left to the mercies of gravity and friction. That was not clear from the description.
If so, it seems obvious to me that the descent will last longer than the ascent. So maybe the problem description is wrong and it should be tb = 2ta.
 
haruspex said:
From the calculation, I deduce that the object is given an initial push up the plane, then left to the mercies of gravity and friction. That was not clear from the description.
If so, it seems obvious to me that the descent will last longer than the ascent. So maybe the problem description is wrong and it should be tb = 2ta.

Adding to that, the relation between ascent time and descent time depends on the push velocity given to the object, which is not specified. Is that the complete problem statement?

Also, there are several algebraic errors in the solution.
 
haruspex said:
From the calculation, I deduce that the object is given an initial push up the plane, then left to the mercies of gravity and friction. That was not clear from the description.
If so, it seems obvious to me that the descent will last longer than the ascent. So maybe the problem description is wrong and it should be tb = 2ta.

Oh my.. That might be the mistake.. U_U Didn't notice that (the exercise is wirtten wrongly) Thanks. I'll see if that was the problem.
 
Sourabh N said:
Adding to that, the relation between ascent time and descent time depends on the push velocity given to the object, which is not specified.
No, that doesn't affect the ratio.
Also, there are several algebraic errors in the solution.
Yes, but I suspect these were in transcribing it for the post. They all seem to cancel out later.
 
Thanks for your replies. The problem was the question was wrongly written (tb=2ta, not ta=2tb). That was it :)
 

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