Dynamics of a Block on top of a slab with friction between them

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of a block placed on a slab, with friction between them, and the effects of a spring that is initially compressed and then released. The participants are analyzing the accelerations of both the block and the slab immediately after the spring is released, as well as the velocities of both when the block reaches the edge of the slab. The problem involves concepts from dynamics and friction.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the use of free body diagrams to analyze forces acting on both the block and the slab. There are discussions about the accelerations derived from the spring force and friction, as well as the application of energy conservation principles to find velocities.
  • Some participants question the direction of motion for both the block and the slab, and whether the spring exerts a force on the slab.
  • There is consideration of splitting the system into two parts for analysis, but concerns are raised about the interactions between the parts.
  • Questions about the application of conservation laws, particularly momentum, are discussed, with some uncertainty about the implications of friction as an external force.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and raising questions about the setup and assumptions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the conservation of momentum and the treatment of the system as a whole, but no consensus has been reached on the specific approach to take for solving the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem due to the interactions between the block, slab, and spring, as well as the effects of friction. There is also mention of the initial conditions and the need for additional equations to solve for the unknown velocities.

  • #31
Thermofox said:
Now can I say that ##W_{\text{friction}}= \Delta l \mu_d g m_b##?
Yes.
Thermofox said:
I'm not sure because the work is done on 2 surfaces that are moving.
Depending on the frame of reference you choose, you could consider that the block moves ##x## one way and the slab moves ##\Delta l-x## the other way. So the block does work ##\mu_kxm_bg## against friction while the slab does work ##\mu_k(\Delta l-x)m_bg## against friction. The total work done against friction is always ##\mu_k\Delta lm_bg##.
Thermofox said:
But what would happen when the block falls from the slab.
You understand that you do not need to consider that, right?
Thermofox said:
Is our system still valid or as soon as they detach, they can no longer be considered as a system?
A system is whatever you define it to be.
Certainly it will behave differently after detachment.
 
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  • #32
Thermofox said:
But what would happen when the block falls from the slab. Is our system still valid or as soon as they detach, they can no longer be considered as a system?
The question does not ask about what happens when the block falls from the slab. It wants the velocities at the moment before this happens.
 
  • #33
haruspex said:
You understand that you do not need to consider that, right?
Yeah, I perfectly do. I was just a thought I had, nothing more.
haruspex said:
Depending on the frame of reference you choose, you could consider that the block moves ##x## one way and the slab moves ##\Delta l-x## the other way. So the block does work ##\mu_kxm_bg## against friction while the slab does work ##\mu_k(\Delta l-x)m_bg## against friction. The total work done against friction is always ##\mu_k\Delta lm_bg##.
Ok now I understand it, Thank you immensely!
 
  • #34
Steve4Physics said:
The question does not ask about what happens when the block falls from the slab. It wants the velocities at the moment before this happens.
Yeah I do realize that, It was just an "if case" I had.
 

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