Effect of attractive interactions on Gibbs free energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the effect of attractive interactions between gas molecules on the molar Gibbs free energy relative to its ideal value. Participants explore the interplay between enthalpy and entropy in this context, considering both theoretical implications and experimental observations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that attractive forces between gas molecules may lead to a lower energy state, implying a decrease in enthalpy and potentially lower Gibbs free energy, but questions the effect on entropy.
  • Another participant argues that the balance between entropy and enthalpy contributions to Gibbs free energy is not straightforward and that for most common gases, the entropy contribution is typically larger, preventing clustering at room temperature.
  • A question is raised about whether increased attractive interactions without condensation would result in a zero effect on entropy or a slight decrease due to molecular attraction.
  • A later reply asserts that the entropy of a non-ideal gas is slightly lower than that of an ideal gas, suggesting a minor decrease in isobaric thermal capacity, although the effect is considered very small and potentially unmeasured.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the balance of enthalpy and entropy effects, with some suggesting a more complex interaction than initially proposed. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise impact of attractive interactions on Gibbs free energy and entropy.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific gas behaviors, the complexity of interactions at different temperatures, and the potential for unmeasured effects in experimental contexts.

wnvl2
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Will the presence of attractive interactions between gas molecules raise or lower the molar Gibbs energy of a gas relative to its ‘perfect’ value?

I would think that these attracting forces result in a lower energy state. A decrease in the energy state implies a decrease in the enthalpy. A reduction of the enthalpy implies a lower Gibbs-free energy.

But what will happen to the entropy?

I think that we will get less disorder as the molecules attract each other. And ther will be a little bit more order, even when there is no condensation. For the Gibbs free energy, which is equal to G=H-TS, this means that both effects have to be balanced. So we cannot say in advance what the direction is of the total effect of attractive forces is on the Gibbs-free energy.

Is that reasoning correct?
 
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wnvl2 said:
For the Gibbs free energy, which is equal to G=H-TS, this means that both effects have to be balanced.
Entropy and enthalpy effects of molecular clusters can be said to be balanced only if exactly 50% of clusters are dissociated. Generally, such balance do not exist. For most common gases (except for water vapour), entropy contribution is much larger and molecules do not cluster in gas phase at room temperature despite of existence of attraction between them
 
But does that mean that when the attractive interactions in a gas increase, but it is not enough to make the gas condensate, that the effect on the entropy is zero or is there a little decrease of the entropy as the molecules are a little bit attracted to each other?
 
wnvl2 said:
But does that mean that when the attractive interactions in a gas increase, but it is not enough to make the gas condensate, that the effect on the entropy is zero or is there a little decrease of the entropy as the molecules are a little bit attracted to each other?
Latter is true. Entropy of non-ideal gas is (a little) lower compared to entropy of ideal gas. This would manifest in experiment as very minor decrease of isobaric thermal capacity below theoretical 0.5⋅(i+2)⋅R
Effect is really small (entropy change is below 1/200000 for xenon at ambient conditions), and i am not sure if it was ever measured. In diatomic gases, it completely swamped by thermal capacity changes due to activation of rotational degrees of freedom.
 
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