Effect of spins on hydrogen atom ground state energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effect of spins on the ground state energy of the hydrogen atom, specifically examining the descriptions provided by Feynman and HyperPhysics. Participants explore the implications of spin configurations and their relationship to energy levels, including references to hyperfine splitting and Zeeman effects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the consistency between Feynman's description of spin states and the explanation provided by HyperPhysics, particularly regarding energy differences associated with parallel and antiparallel spins.
  • One participant suggests that HyperPhysics may be oversimplifying the argument by attributing the upper level in the ground state solely to parallel spins, without considering the implications of Zeeman splitting as discussed by Feynman.
  • Another participant elaborates on the hyperfine structure, explaining how the total angular momentum operator affects the energy levels and the assignment of quantum numbers in the ground state, indicating that both Feynman and HyperPhysics may have overlooked certain states.
  • There is a clarification regarding the symmetric and antisymmetric combinations of spins in the context of the hyperfine splitting, with references to specific quantum states and their degeneracies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretations of spin configurations and their energy implications, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the interpretations of spin states and energy levels, particularly regarding the assumptions made in the descriptions provided by both Feynman and HyperPhysics. There are unresolved mathematical steps related to the quantum states and their degeneracies.

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The hyperphysics link does not work in my computer. Just an advice to make your post able to attract more comments, try to summarize or point out which part of those long texts that you are concerned with.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
try to summarize or point out which part of those long texts that you are concerned with.
The inconsistency is that hyperphysics says that the energy difference is due to spins going from parallel (higher energy) to antiparallel (lower energy) whereas according to Feynman antiparallel spins can be associated also with the higher energy. I don't see how hyperphysics can be correct if one considers also Zeeman splitting like Feynman does in the next section.
 
It seems that the link with hyperphysics is using a hand-waving argument to say that the upper level in the ground state of hydrogen is solely associated to parallel spins between proton and electron. The perturbation term in the one-electron hyperfine splitting is diagonalized by the eigenstates of the total angular momentum operator ##\mathbf{F}##, which is equal to the sum of the nucleus and electron individual angular momenta, ##\mathbf{F} = \mathbf{I}+\mathbf{L}+\mathbf{S}##. Therefore, each level in the hyperfine structure is assigned with the total angular momentum quantum number. For ground state, ##L=0## and ##\mathbf{F} = \mathbf{I}+\mathbf{S}##. As both proton and electron have spin one-half, the possible value of ##F## in the ground state is ##F=0,1##. ##F=1## is the upper level and ##F=0## is the lower level. The upper level with ##F=1## is further three-fold degenerate with ##m_F = -1,0,1## as usual. The state associated with ##|F=1,m_F=1\rangle## has both proton and electron in spin up, ##|F=1,m_F=-1\rangle## has both proton and electron in spin down, and ##|F=1,m_F=0\rangle## is a symmetric combination between electron spin up-proton spin down and the opposite. I guess it's this last state which that hyperphysics link has omitted and which Feynman's lecture referred to as "antiparallel spins can be associated also with the higher energy". The lower level with ##|F=0,m_F=0\rangle##, however, is not degenerate and is an anti-symmetric combination between electron spin up-proton spin down and the opposite.
 
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blue_leaf77 said:
##|F=1,m_F=0\rangle## is a symmetric combination between electron spin up-proton spin down and the opposite. I guess it's this last state which that hyperphysics link has omitted and which Feynman's lecture referred to as "antiparallel spins can be associated also with the higher energy".
Thanks, I think your description is consistent with Feynman's although you are using a slightly different notation. Also, your quoted text above is my summary of what Feynman actually said.
 

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