Efficiency of cycles bounded by two isotherms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the efficiency of reversible thermodynamic cycles that operate between two isothermal processes, specifically focusing on cycles that include isothermal expansion at a high temperature (TH) and isothermal compression at a low temperature (TC). Participants explore various configurations of the cycles, excluding heat recycling through regenerators, and consider the implications of temperature differences on efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a general proof that the Carnot cycle has a higher efficiency than all other cycles that fit the specified criteria.
  • Another participant presents a mathematical formulation involving differential heat increments and entropy changes, leading to an expression for efficiency that incorporates temperature differences and additional terms related to heat increments.
  • Some participants note that the efficiency of cycles bounded by two isotherms, such as the Carnot cycle, increases with the temperature difference between the hot and cold reservoirs.
  • One participant claims that only the Carnot engine and certain other engines with regenerators have efficiencies determined solely by the temperatures of the isotherms.
  • A request for clarification on the phrase "cycles bounded by two isotherms, like a Carnot cycle" indicates a desire for more precise definitions or explanations of the concepts involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between temperature differences and efficiency in isothermal cycles, but there are competing views regarding the role of regenerators and whether only the Carnot cycle has efficiency determined solely by isothermal temperatures. The discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the implications of excluding regenerators or the specific conditions under which the efficiency claims hold. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the derivation of efficiency, and the definitions of certain terms remain ambiguous.

Philip Koeck
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I want to consider all possible reversible cycles that consist of an isothermal expansion at TH and an isothermal compression at TC.
The other two processes can be isochoric, isobaric, adiabatic or anything else, but they should never leave the temperature range between the two isotherms.
I also want to explicitly exclude heat recycling using a regenerator.
Pressure and volume of the system should always remain finite and the temperature is always finite and larger than 0 K.

Is there a general proof that the Carnot cycle has a higher efficiency than all other cycles considered above?
 
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Let ##dQ_H## be the differential increments of heat received by the engine during the heating part of the cycle, ##dQ_C## be the increments of heat rejected by the engine during the cooling part of the cycle, ##T_{max}## be the maximum temperature during the heating part of the cycle, and ##T_{min}## be the minimum temperature during the cooling part of the cycle. Then, $$\int{\frac{dQ_H}{T}}=\frac{Q_H}{T_{max}}+\delta_H$$where ##\delta_H## is positive (since T < ##T_{max}##). Similarly, $$\int{\frac{dQ_C}{T}}=\frac{Q_C}{T_{min}}-\delta_C$$ where ##\delta_C is positive (## since T > ##T_{min}##). So, $$\Delta S=\frac{Q_H}{T_{max}}+\delta_H-\frac{Q_C}{T_{min}}+\delta_C=0$$Therefore, $$Q_C=\frac{T_{min}}{T_{max}}Q_H+T_{min}(\delta_H+\delta_C)$$So the efficiency is $$e=\frac{Q_H-Q_C}{Q_H}=\frac{T_{max}-T_{min}}{T_{max}}-\frac{T_{min}(\delta_H+\delta_C)}{Q_H}$$
 
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Chestermiller said:
Let ##dQ_H## be the differential increments of heat received by the engine during the heating part of the cycle, ##dQ_C## be the increments of heat rejected by the engine during the cooling part of the cycle, ##T_{max}## be the maximum temperature during the heating part of the cycle, and ##T_{min}## be the minimum temperature during the cooling part of the cycle. Then, $$\int{\frac{dQ_H}{T}}=\frac{Q_H}{T_{max}}+\delta_H$$where ##\delta_H## is positive (since T < ##T_{max}##). Similarly, $$\int{\frac{dQ_C}{T}}=\frac{Q_C}{T_{min}}-\delta_C$$ where ##\delta_C is positive (## since T > ##T_{min}##). So, $$\Delta S=\frac{Q_H}{T_{max}}+\delta_H-\frac{Q_C}{T_{min}}+\delta_C=0$$Therefore, $$Q_C=\frac{T_{min}}{T_{max}}Q_H+T_{min}(\delta_H+\delta_C)$$So the efficiency is $$e=\frac{Q_H-Q_C}{Q_H}=\frac{T_{max}-T_{min}}{T_{max}}-\frac{T_{min}(\delta_H+\delta_C)}{Q_H}$$
Thanks! That's a great proof.
 
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The temperatures of the isothermal processes determine the efficiency of cycles bounded by two isotherms, like a Carnot cycle. As the temperature difference between the hot and cold reservoirs grows, efficiency rises.
 
thulsidass said:
The temperatures of the isothermal processes determine the efficiency of cycles bounded by two isotherms, like a Carnot cycle. As the temperature difference between the hot and cold reservoirs grows, efficiency rises.
I would say only the Carnot engine and certain other engines with regenerators have an efficiency that's only determined by the temperatures of the isotherms.
 
thulsidass said:
The temperatures of the isothermal processes determine the efficiency of cycles bounded by two isotherms, like a Carnot cycle. As the temperature difference between the hot and cold reservoirs grows, efficiency rises.
Can you explain more precisely? What do you mean by "cycles bounded by two isotherms, like a Carnot cycle"?
 

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