Einstein or Einstein-Cartan?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the Einstein-Cartan theory as an extension of general relativity, specifically addressing its ability to describe spin-orbit coupling, which general relativity fails to do. It is established that the presence of matter with spin necessitates this extension due to the requirement of an asymmetric affine connection, a feature absent in general relativity. Although experimental effects of this theory are currently too small to observe, the theoretical proof for the necessity of Einstein-Cartan theory remains valid. The conversation highlights the independence of the theoretical proof from the observational limitations of current data.

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  • Understanding of general relativity principles
  • Familiarity with spin and angular momentum concepts
  • Knowledge of affine connections in differential geometry
  • Basic grasp of experimental physics and observational limitations
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  • Research the implications of Einstein-Cartan theory on modern physics
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  • Explore the mathematical framework of asymmetric affine connections
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This discussion is beneficial for theoretical physicists, cosmologists, and researchers interested in the intersection of quantum mechanics and general relativity, particularly those exploring advanced theories of gravity.

Dmitry67
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Could anyone explain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Cartan_theory

1 As the master theory of classical physics general relativity has one known flaw: it cannot describe "spin-orbit coupling", i.e., exchange of intrinsic angular momentum (spin) and orbital angular momentum.

2 There is a qualitative proof showing that general relativity must be extended to Einstein-Cartan theory when matter with spin is present.

3 Experimental effects are too small to be observed at the present time because the spin tensor of typical macroscopic objects is often small and torsion is nonpropagating which means that torsion will only appear within a massive body. In addition, only spinning objects couple to torsion.

I don't understand why if #3 (Experimental effects are too small to be observed) there is a 'proof' #2? What is a 'flaw' if there are no observed effects?
 
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I think #2 and #3 are independent of each other. In order to accommodate spin-orbit coupling a theory must have an asymmetric affine connection. This is not true of GR but is the case for Einstein-Cartan theory. That is a fact and does not depend on the fact that the effects of SO coupling are very small in weak field and small spin regimes.

I think the article is saying that with our present data, it isn't possible to separate the two theories.
 

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