Electric Potential Energy defintiion

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of electric potential energy, particularly in the context of attractive systems and the implications of work done in moving charges. Participants explore the relationship between work, charge interactions, and the concept of gauge symmetry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the definition of work in a binary positive charge system and whether it applies to all conservative forces.
  • Another participant suggests researching gauge symmetry, although the relevance to the main question is unclear.
  • There is a discussion about the work done in moving a unit positive charge and its implications for charge sensitivity.
  • A participant notes that the definition of potential energy involves differences rather than absolute values, which may relate to the earlier points about work and energy.
  • One participant mentions that the sign of potential energy is arbitrary and depends on convention.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and relevance regarding gauge symmetry, with no consensus on its connection to electric potential energy. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of work done and the definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion over the concepts discussed, particularly regarding gauge symmetry and its relation to potential energy, indicating a need for clearer explanations or foundational knowledge.

the-ever-kid
Messages
53
Reaction score
0
I've Had this doubt from a long time back :

Being in high school my physics teach simply stated that
"potential energy in an attractive system is negative"

No explanations given.

To quench my thirst I went through books and things . I found one difinitive result :

a:

In this Video http://bit.ly/wl8-0204

  • Prof.Walter Lewin Says that work done in a binary positive charge system the work done is the work done by the observer to bring the charge from infinity to a desired distance,is the same as the force of interaction moving from that point to infinity.
  • \mathcal{W}_{\infty\rightarrow r}=\int_\infty^r\vec{F}_{obs}\cdot d\vec{r}=\int^\infty_r\vec{F}_{elec}\cdot d\vec{r}
  • and because the second integral has known quantities, it relates to \frac{Qq_o}{4\pi\epsilon_o}\left[ \frac{-1}{r}\right]_r^\infty=\frac{Qq_o}{4\pi\epsilon_or}
  • becase this quantity is charge dependent therefore for attractive bodies the energy will be negative and vice versa.

Now my Queston is:Is work defined as this
work done in a binary positive charge system the work done is the work done by the observer to bring the charge from infinity to a desired distance
taken to be true for all conservative forces and is this the definition (i presume it is) .

Secondly why did he flip the signs of the limits over was it because of the direction of forces.

Thirdly does the thermodynamic concept of work done "on" the system and work done "by" the system apply here too.( i know it does but how?)
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
This is going to be a rubbish post, as it doesn't answer any of your questions, but I suggest you research Gauge Symmetry.
 
why did you post then ? BTW what is gauge symmetry
 
Because this should help a bit.
 
how?
 
Again, look into Gauge Symmetry.
 
it is work done in moving unit 'positive' charge, isn't it?
 
this one is but walter lewin later says that the result is charge sensitive how come as he initially took a charge specific case
 
read a liitle about gauge smmetry on wikipedia went over my head mindboggling stuff couldn't understand a thing!
 
  • #10
factfinder said:
it is work done in moving unit 'positive' charge, isn't it?

Doesnt matter as long as the polarity is same
 
  • #11
the-ever-kid said:
read a liitle about gauge smmetry on wikipedia went over my head mindboggling stuff couldn't understand a thing!

Yea, Wikipedia can be confusing for most math/science topics, probably not the ideal place to start.
 
  • #12
how is it related to the topic anyway?
 
  • #13
If I got the definition right, it's related to there not being any "absolute" potential energy, just differences in potential energy, which relates to the "definition" of potential energy here.
 
  • #14
The sign is arbitrary (a matter of convention) as long as you know what you are doing.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K