Electrical conductivity of seawater depends on salinity how?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the salinity of seawater and its electrical conductivity, exploring theoretical models, empirical measurements, and the influence of temperature. Participants seek to understand how salinity affects conductivity and the complexities involved in modeling this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a model based on the Kohlrausch ionic model, expressing the relationship between conductivity and salinity, but notes the empirical nature of the Kohlrausch constant as a limitation.
  • Another participant suggests that the problem is complex and may be easier to solve experimentally rather than theoretically, emphasizing the importance of considering ionic strength and the behavior of ions in solution.
  • There is a discussion about the physical meaning of ionic strength, with one participant admitting to oversimplifying the concept and seeking clarification on how to incorporate it into calculations.
  • Participants mention the Debye-Hückel theory as a relevant approach for understanding ionic interactions, although it is noted that this theory may not be applicable to seawater due to its higher concentration compared to dilute solutions.
  • Several participants recommend consulting electrochemistry and analytical chemistry texts for more comprehensive explanations and methodologies related to measuring conductivity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the complexity of the problem and the challenges in deriving a theoretical model. However, there is no consensus on a definitive approach or model for relating salinity to conductivity, and multiple viewpoints regarding measurement and theoretical considerations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the empirical nature of certain constants in the proposed models, the dependence on ionic strength, and the applicability of theories like Debye-Hückel to seawater. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and conditions that have not been fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in electrochemistry, environmental science, and related fields who are exploring the properties of seawater and the factors influencing its conductivity.

H Smith 94
Gold Member
Messages
55
Reaction score
1
Hi! I am currently trying to determine how the salinity ##S## of a sample of seawater (or, objectively, a salt-water solution) changes its electrical conductivity ##\sigma##.

It is clear that they are proportional since the mobility of the ##\text{Na}^{+}## and ##\text{Cl}^{-}## ions plays a huge role but I am unable to find any conclusive models which describe relationship between ##\sigma## and ##S##. Does anyone have any pointers or know of any existing relations? It would also be useful to understand in what way these factors depend on the temperature ##T##.

I have previously discovered the Kohlrausch ionic model (see also: Molar conductivity), which provides a semi-empirical determination of the specific conductivity. From this I determined that

\sigma_{25^\text{o}\text{C}}(C_n) = \left(\nu_+\lambda_+^{(0)}+\nu_-\lambda_-^{(0)}\right)\,C_n - KC_n^{3/2}​
where:

##\nu_\pm## is the number of moles of each ion;
##\lambda_\pm^{(0)}## is the limiting molar conductivities of each ion,
for ##\text{Na}^{+}## and ##\text{Cl}^{-}##:
##\lambda_+^{(0)} = 5.011\, \text{mS}\,\text{m}^2\,\text{mol}^{-1}##,
##\lambda_-^{(0)} = 7.634\, \text{mS}\,\text{m}^2\,\text{mol}^{-1}##;​
##C_n(S) = S\rho_\text{water}/N_Am_i## is the number concentration (i.e. number of ions per unit volume,) in which:

##S## is salinity;
##\rho_\text{water}## is the density of water;
##m_i## is the mass of each salt particle (##m_i = m_\text{Na} + m_\text{Cl}##;)
##N_A## is Avagadro's constant.​

Making the assumption that ##\nu_+ = \nu_- = \nu## and using the substitution for ##C_n(S)## we find that

\begin{equation} \sigma_{25^\text{o}\text{C}}(S) = \left(\lambda_{\text{Na}^{+}}^{(0)}+\lambda_{\text{Cl}^{-}}^{(0)}\right)\left(\frac{\rho_\text{water}}{N_Am_i}S\right)\nu - K\left(\frac{\rho_\text{water}}{N_Am_i}S\right)^{3/2}. \end{equation}​
Although this model is great and seems to cover most bases it still has that pesky empirical ##K## value (the Kohlrausch constant,) so it's really not perfect.

Have I made any fatal assumptions/errors in deriving this? What are its limitations? Does anyone know of a way to expand this model to incorporate temperature, rather than simply being a specific conductivity?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Beware - this is a quite difficult problem, which is easier to solve experimentally (that is - just measure the conductivity) than to get reasonable result from theoretical considerations. You should take ionic strength of the solution into account, and the fact that ions have tendency to travel in pairs (which is to some extent equivalent to assuming salts are not 100% dissociated). Thick books have been written and there is still no easy approach.

Unfortunately the only source I can suggest is a book that can be rather difficult to find - https://books.google.pl/books/about/Electrochemistry.html?id=FVF8kDHABH8C&hl=pl There are plenty of other books, it just happens I have this one on the shelf, so I am sure it contains an introduction to the theory needed.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: H Smith 94
Borek, thank you for moving this thread!
Borek said:
Beware - this is a quite difficult problem, which is easier to solve experimentally (that is - just measure the conductivity) than to get reasonable result from theoretical considerations.
It certainly does seem that way! What's the best way to measure conductivity experimentally? I could try to tabulate some different values (like this one) and use those instead.
Borek said:
You should take ionic strength of the solution into account, and the fact that ions have tendency to travel in pairs (which is to some extent equivalent to assuming salts are not 100% dissociated).
I was a little confused by the physical meaning of the ionic strength, so I just made a complete oversimplification so I didn't have to think about it haha. Maybe that was a bad idea. How would I factor this into the calculation?
Borek said:
Thick books have been written and there is still no easy approach.
Unfortunately the only source I can suggest is a book that can be rather difficult to find - https://books.google.pl/books/about/Electrochemistry.html?id=FVF8kDHABH8C&hl=pl There are plenty of other books, it just happens I have this one on the shelf, so I am sure it contains an introduction to the theory needed.
I feared that would be the case! I'll have to root through the book shelves, too.

Thank you for the suggestion. Is this book written in English? My Polish is, let's say, nie dobry.
 
Last edited:
H Smith 94 said:
What's the best way to measure conductivity experimentally?

Any serious electrochemistry book (or even some instrumental/analytical chemistry books) will discuss it.

How would I factor this into the calculation?

Debye-Huckel theory. But I strongly suggest instead of asking about each things separately you start to read electrochemistry books, they always explain things in a reasonably complete and systematic manner, which is much better than the hit-and-run on the forum.

Is this book written in English? My Polish is, let's say, nie dobry.

As far as I remember it was published in English, German and Polish, probably in Czech. But there are other similar books written in English (and probably much easier to find), I just don't know them.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: H Smith 94
Borek said:
Any serious electrochemistry book (or even some instrumental/analytical chemistry books) will discuss it.

Debye-Huckel theory. But I strongly suggest instead of asking about each things separately you start to read electrochemistry books, they always explain things in a reasonably complete and systematic manner, which is much better than the hit-and-run on the forum.
Yes, you're right: I do seem a little leech-ey right now. Thank you for all your help, your pointers have been of invaluable assistance to me.
 

Similar threads

Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
11K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
14K