Determining number of dissociated moles from concentration?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the number of moles of ions present when a salt is dissolved in water, focusing on concepts such as dissociation constants, molar conductivity, and the assumptions regarding complete dissociation of salts like NaCl.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about a formula to determine the number of moles of ions from the concentration of a salt in water, referencing high school chemistry concepts.
  • Another participant clarifies that while a single formula does not exist, there is a theoretical framework for calculating equilibrium concentrations, particularly for salts that fully dissociate.
  • There is a suggestion that for salts like NaCl, one could assume perfect dissociation, leading to equal concentrations of Na+ and Cl-, although this assumption may not hold at higher academic levels.
  • A participant mentions Ostwald's law of dilution as a potential relevant concept for the discussion.
  • Another participant shifts the focus to the relationship between electrical conductivity and salinity, seeking clarification on how dissolved ions behave in an electric field.
  • Multiple participants recommend looking up Kohlrausch's law, noting its usefulness despite its semi-empirical nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of agreement on the assumptions regarding dissociation, with some suggesting that NaCl can be treated as fully dissociating while others indicate that this may not be the case at more advanced levels. The discussion on electrical conductivity and its dependence on salinity remains open-ended, with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding dissociation, particularly in more complex systems or at higher academic levels. The discussion also highlights the semi-empirical nature of certain models, which may restrict their applicability.

H Smith 94
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Is there a formula to theoretically determine the number of moles of each ion present when a particular concentration of salt is dissociated in water?

I remember from A-level (high school) chemistry that concepts such as the dissociation constant exist but I'm struggling to apply them to concentration.

I am currently looking at the molar conductivity.
 
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Single formula? No. Theory that allows calculation of equilibrium concentrations? Yes.

Or do you mean just a simple case with something that fully dissociates? Then it is not even a formula, it just a direct application of the concentration definition, c=n/V.
 
Hi Borek, thank you for your quick response!

Borek said:
Single formula? No. Theory that allows calculation of equilibrium concentrations? Yes.

That sounds interesting and potentially useful. I'll look it up. Could you shed any light on anything you think may be useful?

Borek said:
Or do you mean just a simple case with something that fully dissociates? Then it is not even a formula, it just a direct application of the concentration definition, c=n/V.

So could I assume that NaCl dissociates perfectly in water, resulting in equal concentrations of Na+ and Cl-? Because that would make everything so much nicer. :biggrin:
 
H Smith 94 said:
That sounds interesting and potentially useful. I'll look it up. Could you shed any light on anything you think may be useful?

Check these pages:

http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=pH-calculation&right=general-pH-calculation

http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=pH-calculation&right=toc

While this is about pH calculation, the ideas behind are the same no matter what ions/species are involved.

H Smith 94 said:
So could I assume that NaCl dissociates perfectly in water, resulting in equal concentrations of Na+ and Cl-? Because that would make everything so much nicer.

For NaCl (and HS level) you can make such an assumption. At the undergraduate level you will be told it is not that simple, at the graduate level you will find details are a nightmare.
 
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Hi everyone, thank you for your help so far!

Does anyone know how the electrical conductivity ##\sigma## (conversely, resistivity ##\rho##) depends on salinity ##S## -- or more specifically, on the movement of dissolved ions in an electric field? I know they're in some way proportional but cannot find how!
 
Google Kohlrausch law.
 
Borek said:
Google Kohlrausch law.
Thank you! Yes, this is a very useful model. I've tried using it previously but found it limited by its semi-empirical nature.

I actually posted a question on this forum about it (which I completely forgot about until just now, oops!) If you wouldn't mind, perhaps you could look at my calculations on that post to see if the assumptions made make chemical sense. :biggrin:

I have no idea why I posted that in the Atomic, Solid State & Comp. forum, no wonder it got no answer!
 

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