Electrical energy stored by charged concentric spherical shells

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of electrical energy stored by charged concentric spherical shells, focusing on the potential energy contributions from both the inner and outer shells. Participants explore various methods and formulas for determining the total energy stored in the system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the charge induced on the inner surface of shell B is -q, leading to a charge of Q+q on the outer surface of shell B.
  • The same participant suggests calculating the energy stored using the formula for a shell capacitor, specifically (q^2/8pi e0)(1/a - 1/b), and adding the potential energy from the electric field outside the two shells.
  • Another participant questions the potential energy expression outside the second sphere, suggesting it should be $$U = \frac{(Q+q)^2}{8 \pi \varepsilon_0 b}$$ instead.
  • A later reply acknowledges a mistake regarding the application of the shell theorem, clarifying that it does not apply to energy but does apply to potential.
  • Further elaboration is provided on calculating the energy outside the outer shell using Gauss's law, detailing the electric potential and field, and deriving the energy expression through integration.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of calculating energy contributions from both the region outside the outer shell and the region between the two shells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to calculate the energy contributions from both the inner and outer shells, but there are competing views on the correct expressions for potential energy and the application of the shell theorem. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most accurate approach to calculating the total energy stored.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of potential and energy, as well as unresolved mathematical steps in deriving the total energy expression.

phantomvommand
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I thought up of this problem myself, so I do not have solutions. I would appreciate if you could correct my approach to solving this problem.

Firstly, the charge induced on the inner surface of shell B is -q, and so the charge on the outer surface of shell B is Q+q.

The energy stored can be calculated as the potential energy stored by a shell capacitor of charge q, as given by (q^2/8pi e0)(1/a - 1/b). Then, we have to add the potential energy stored in the E-field outside the 2 shells, which is (1/4pi e0) (Q+q)/b.

Does my approach look right?
 
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I think the method is okay, but I wonder if the potential energy outside the second sphere should instead be $$U = \frac{(Q+q)^2}{8 \pi \varepsilon_0 b}$$
 
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etotheipi said:
I think the method is okay, but I wonder if the potential energy outside the second sphere should instead be $$U = \frac{(Q+q)^2}{8 \pi \varepsilon_0 b}$$

You are right. I forgot that the shell theorem does not apply to energy and potential.
 
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Potential energy no, but it does apply to potential! To get the above you just need to write the energy of a second spherical capacitor from radius ##b## to radius infinity (exactly the same way as you calculated the first contribution to the energy, between the shells). But if you're interested, you can also find the energy another way!

Take, for example, just the region outside the outer shell. From Gauss you see that the electric potential for ##r \in [b, \infty)## is just ##\phi(r) = \frac{k(Q+q)}{r}##, i.e. the same as for a point charge ##Q + q## at the origin, due to the spherical symmetry. The associated electric field is ##\mathbf{E} = \frac{k(Q+q)}{r^2} \mathbf{e}_r##. And the norm-squared of that vector is ##|\mathbf{E}|^2 = \frac{k^2(Q+q)^2}{r^4}##

So denote by ##\Omega \subseteq \mathbb{R}^3## the set of points with radii ##r \in [b, \infty)##, then given the volume element ##dV = r^2 dr do## in spherical coordinates you have$$
\begin{align*}

U_2 &= \frac{\varepsilon_0}{2} \int_{\Omega} |\mathbf{E}|^2 dV \\ \\

&= \frac{\varepsilon_0 k^2 (Q+q)^2}{2} \int_{0}^{4\pi} \int_{b}^{\infty} r^{-2} dr do = \frac{\varepsilon_0 k^2 (Q+q)^2}{2} \frac{4\pi}{b} = \frac{(Q+q)^2}{8\pi \varepsilon_0 b}

\end{align*}
$$Of course, you could also do the same integral in the region between the two shells, which would give you the electric energy ##U_1##. And the sum ##U_1 + U_2## gives you what you're after.
 
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