Electricity Without the analogies (need expert varification)

[tim9000]

The topic of how electricity actually flows is one of the worst answered most common questions I've seen. Best answer I've seen was here by Gokul43201:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=377359&page=3

I also HATE the "shock-wave" analogy


YET I'm still confused, as I know an electric field cannot propagate inside a conductor, I have read that a conductor is like a medium with infinite permittivity. -> I've seen pictures where the conductor's free charges move to set up an apposing electric field (I think) on the surface.

Crux:
So I always thought that a conducting wire was a TM mode TL, but I haven't seen any literature supporting my assumption (from Right hand screw rule), hence I believe it to be wrong.
Am I to conclude that infact the Electric Flux does indeed flow through at least the skin-depth (if AC) of a conductor at near the speed of 'c', because the charges are able to circulate in a loop? (and thus not oppose the E-field)

It seems weird to me that the conductor would go from having what seemed to be infinite permittivity (like an isolated sphere in an E-field), to almost no permittivity, so the E-field sticks inside the conductor and don't leak out, as it often is not a straight line (wires etc).

(or an adoquate distance for high frequencies, in an antenna)


THANKS

 

[tim9000]

For anyone curious, I think I may have found half the answer to my question here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=154617&page=2
In that-
"Now, what is an EXTREME change in charge flux, is when it tries to cross the surface of the conductor: it simply can't. So all charge that wants to flow "outside" of the conductor is accumulated on its surface! And this in such a way, that the E-field is modified UNTIL it is entirely parallel to the conductor surface (because only then, no charge wants to "flow outside" and hence gets accumulated more at the surface)."Although I still wouldn't mind hearing a "no" about the wire not being a TM mode TL, from someone who knew.

 

[jtbell]

I know an electric field cannot propagate inside a conductor,

This is true in electrostatics, but a current-carrying wire is not an electrostatic situation.

 

[tim9000]

This is true in electrostatics, but a current-carrying wire is not an electrostatic situation.

Thanks for clearing that up. Is a current carrying wire of a type of mode TL?

 

[sardar]

I can confirm that the flow of electricity is a complex and often misunderstood topic. While analogies can be useful in understanding certain concepts, they should not be relied upon as a complete explanation of how electricity actually flows.

To answer your question, yes, the electric flux does flow through at least the skin-depth of a conductor, and it can travel at near the speed of light. This is due to the fact that the free charges in the conductor are able to circulate in a loop, allowing the electric field to pass through.

However, it is important to note that the electric field does not actually "flow" in the traditional sense. Instead, it is an electromagnetic wave that propagates through the conductor, causing the free charges to move and creating a current.

The concept of permittivity is also important to understand in this context. While a conductor does have a high permittivity, this does not mean that the electric field is completely blocked. In fact, the electric field can still penetrate the conductor to some extent, but it will be attenuated due to the presence of the free charges.

In short, the flow of electricity in a conductor is a combination of electromagnetic waves and the movement of free charges. It is a complex phenomenon that requires a deep understanding of electromagnetism to fully grasp. I encourage you to continue researching and learning about this topic to gain a better understanding.