Electrolysis Wattage: A New Engine Concept Explored

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a new engine design inspired by a Stirling Engine, focusing on the role of wattage, amperage, and voltage in electrolysis for gas production. Participants explore various ideas related to the efficiency and mechanics of electrolysis, including the use of ignition coils and innovative electrode designs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the importance of amperage versus voltage in achieving fast electrolysis rates, particularly as water separates the electrodes during piston movement.
  • Another participant suggests using ignition coils connected to car batteries to achieve higher voltage, questioning the viability of this approach.
  • Concerns are raised about the vagueness of the initial proposal, with one participant suggesting it resembles a perpetual motion machine, while the original poster clarifies that their design relies on a power supply similar to a Stirling Engine.
  • It is noted that current is crucial for gas evolution, and that a large electrode surface area is necessary, as gas bubbles can insulate the electrodes and restrict current flow.
  • A participant recalls being told that high voltage and low amperage were key to fast electrolysis, but they now believe that this is incorrect.
  • One participant proposes the idea of using electrolysis of water vapor to improve efficiency by eliminating the need for a condenser and increasing electrode surface area dynamically.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the feasibility of electrolysis of water vapor due to expected high resistance and suggests mechanical methods to remove gas bubbles from electrodes.
  • Concerns are raised about the significant amount of electricity required to produce even a small volume of gases through electrolysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to electrolysis for the proposed engine concept, with multiple competing views and uncertainties about the effectiveness of different methods and designs.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of the proposed engine design, and assumptions about the electrolysis process are not fully explored. The discussion includes unresolved technical details regarding the mechanics of gas evolution and electrode design.

twiz_
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After my endeavors on Electro-Tech-Online, I have concluded that they are the least bit constructive.

Now, I wasn't sure which section to post this in, so I went with EE. I'm currently developing a new engine concept similar to a Stirling Engine, and I have no idea whether it will actually work. I'm having a hard time grasping the wattage concept of the electrolysis. I understand that I should probably go for more wattage in general, but I want to know whether the amperage or the voltage is more important in conduct electrolysis at an extremely fast rate. One thing I think is worth mentioning is that as the piston is moving across the cylinder, more water will be separating the two electrodes, so how will this affect the ideal voltage and wattage?

Sorry if my questions are too farfetched, but I'm excited about building the engine to see if it works properly and efficiently within the next month or so.
 
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I was also wondering about using ignition coils connected to the electrodes, which are going to be supplied by a couple of car batteries, in order to make a higher voltage. Is this a good idea?
 
Welcome to PF!

This is all very vague. What pistons? Can you draw us a diagram of what you are trying to build? While vague, it does have the scent of a potential perpetual motion machine, which if that is your intent, you are on the wrong track.

I'll let an EE help with the nuts and bolts of the electrolysis.
 
russ_watters said:
Welcome to PF!

This is all very vague. What pistons? Can you draw us a diagram of what you are trying to build? While vague, it does have the scent of a potential perpetual motion machine, which if that is your intent, you are on the wrong track.

I'll let an EE help with the nuts and bolts of the electrolysis.
No, it is not a perpetual motion machine. Just as a Stirling Engine requires a constant heat source, my design requires only a power supply. Since it's late I will try to draw a diagram in the morning.
 
Hi twiz_. It's current that determines how rapidly gas is evolved. You need a large area of electrode exposed to the solution. This is difficult to arrange, because as the gas bubbles cover the plates this tends to insulate them from the electrolyte and restricts the current. Increasing the voltage is next to futile.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Hi twiz_. It's current that determines how rapidly gas is evolved. You need a large area of electrode exposed to the solution. This is difficult to arrange, because as the gas bubbles cover the plates this tends to insulate them from the electrolyte and restricts the current. Increasing the voltage is next to futile.
I remember someone telling me that a high voltage/low amperage was key to a fast rate of electrolysis, but they were clearly wrong. Anyway, would using a method of electrolysis of water vapor be useful? Since then the electrolyte will be more hybrid with the rest of the substances in the mixture. This will also eliminate the need for a condenser, rendering it more efficient. Perhaps I could create a system that continually increases electrode surface area as more water enters the cylinder. I could even implement this idea on the part of the crank arm that's inside the cylinder. I know you guys have no idea what I'm talking about, but I just got home and I'm going to work on a drawing tonight.
 
Better yet, I could create a cork shaped electrode that moves in a circular motion as the piston moves across the cylinder which automatically pushes the bubbles out of the way.
 
I can't picture electrolysis of water vapor working. I expect it would have a high resistance, but I'm no expert.

I don't know how large-scale electrolysis works, but there would seem to be a need to mechanically remove the bubbles adhering to the plates, either by using some sort of a brush or by 'hosing' it off by arranging a turbulent water flow.

You will be disappointed by how much electricity is needed to generate a puny volume of gases.
 

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