Electromagnetic Tensor: Questions & Answers

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electromagnetic field tensor, specifically its properties and implications in the context of relativity. Participants explore the conditions under which the rest mass of a particle remains unchanged by forces, as well as the antisymmetry of the electromagnetic tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of the condition u.f=0, suggesting it relates to the rest mass of a particle not being altered by force.
  • Another participant proposes that if Fμσuμ uσ = 0, then it follows that Fμμ = 0 and Fμσ = -Fσμ, although they express uncertainty about the rigor of their reasoning.
  • A different participant expresses confusion about the antisymmetry of the tensor, asking for further clarification on why Fμσ = -Fσμ seems odd to them.
  • One participant attempts to derive the antisymmetry by expanding the expression F12u1 u2 + F21 u2 u1 = 0, leading to the conclusion F12 = -F21.
  • A later reply discusses the relationship between relativistic mechanics and 4-vectors, stating that a realistic 4-force must be orthogonal to the 4-velocity, which implies f·v = 0.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the antisymmetry of the electromagnetic tensor and the implications of the condition u.f=0. No consensus is reached on the clarity of these concepts, and some participants seek further explanation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the implications of the condition u.f=0 and the reasoning behind the antisymmetry of the electromagnetic tensor. Participants express uncertainty about the rigor of their arguments and the clarity of the concepts discussed.

shadi_s10
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dear all,

I have a question about Electromagnetic field tensor.
As I was reading introduction to relativity by Hobson, I saw this sentence:
"in order that the rest mass of a particle is not altered by the action of the erforce we require the latter to be a pure force, so:
u.f=0
1) what does it mean?

The other question is about the rest of this text:

in the component form this reads:

f_μ u^μ=q F_μσ u^μ u^σ=0
so that F must be an anti symmetric tensor. 2) why?!
 
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If this holds

Fμσuμ uσ = 0

then Fμμ = 0, and Fμσ = -Fσμ

It seems obvious to me if the full expansion is written out, but I'm not sure if what I've written is rigorous or helpful.
 
Mentz114 said:
If this holds

Fμσuμ uσ = 0

then Fμμ = 0, and Fμσ = -Fσμ

It seems obvious to me if the full expansion is written out, but I'm not sure if what I've written is rigorous or helpful.

Dear friend,

I agree with he first one but could you please explain the second one more?
Fμσ = -Fσμ

I don't know why it seems so odd to me!
 
F12u1 u2 + F21 u2 u1 = 0 => F12 = -F21 ?
 
Mentz114 said:
F12u1 u2 + F21 u2 u1 = 0 => F12 = -F21 ?

U r right!
Thank you!
 
does anyone know the answer to the first question?
why should it be like this:
u.f=0?!
what does hobson mean by that?
 
Relativistic mechanics can be expressed in terms of 4-vectors f, a, v, related to each other in the same way that we're used to seeing in three dimensions except for the use of proper time τ in place of coordinate time, f = ma = m dv/dτ.

Consequently f·v = m v·dv/dτ = ½ m d(v·v)/dτ. But the 4-velocity has constant length c, so this requires that f·v = 0. A realistic 4-force must always be orthogonal to the 4-velocity.

The only way to have f·v ≠ 0 is to consider a system with variable mass.
 
Thank you. I understand it now.
 

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