Electromagnetism and theoretical shape of a photon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electromagnetic waves, the theoretical shape of photons, and the implications of relativity on the perception of light. Participants explore concepts related to wave-particle duality, the behavior of light at different velocities, and the potential connections between photons and neutrinos.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that wavelengths of light can be perceived differently depending on the relative velocities of the emitter and observer, referencing Einstein's theory of relativity.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the description regarding space and time, emphasizing that there is no absolute "stationary" frame of reference.
  • There is a proposal that if electromagnetic waves are viewed as ripples in spacetime, this could lead to a self-propagating system that travels in spirals or fractals, potentially forming sine waves.
  • A hypothesis is raised that photons could have fractals at their front, which might explain neutrinos as separate entities from the electromagnetic force, linking this to the wave/particle duality and the strong nuclear force.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the meaningfulness of discussing a "theoretical shape" of a photon, arguing that photons do not have a defined extent and that such models lack empirical support.
  • Clarifications are requested regarding the principles of redshift and the relationship between the emitter and receiver of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of light and the validity of personal theories. There is no consensus on the proposed models or the interpretations of relativity, and some participants challenge the clarity and validity of the claims made.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of empirical evidence for personal models discussed, as well as the potential confusion arising from mixing different concepts related to relativity and wave behavior.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the theoretical aspects of electromagnetism, the nature of photons, and the implications of relativity on light perception may find this discussion relevant.

Hicks88
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Hello all,

I have a few questions and a few thoughts

I think I understand that according to einsteins theory of relativity, wavelengths can be perceived differently when traveling at different velocities comparatively to when it was emitted. i.e. if something traveling close to the speed of light were to emit light, it would still only be able to travel at the speed of light, but space would expand and time would shrink to accommodate for this. this would be gamma rays if perceived by something stationary? similarly, something with little velocity shining a light - which is then picked up by something accelerating very fast away from it - the EM could be perceived as radio waves due to it being elongated when received?

As per my attached drawings, if EM were a rip running along space-time at the speed of light - this is how it could travel. The detailed drawing showing electricity, and the smaller one showing how magnetism travels in relation to the first.

I have designed it as a self propegating system - only traveling in spirals or fractals. when combined this should give a sine wave

Also, if photons had fractals at the front of them - could this explain neutrinos as being these fractals separated from the EM force? It would in my opinion explain a lot of the wave/particle questions. (things have mass because this fractal energy is bound by strong neuclear force? - could the strong neuclear force etc possibly be explained by the way in which light travels?) Rather than simply stating it as just being a wave?

Cheers

Jamie
 

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but space would expand and time would shrink to accommodate for this.
That is not a meaningful description.

this would be gamma rays if perceived by something stationary?
Stationary relative to what? There is no absolute "stationary". Different observers can see different frequencies, yes. This includes gamma rays.

similarly, something with little velocity shining a light - which is then picked up by something accelerating very fast away from it - the EM could be perceived as radio waves due to it being elongated when received?
Large relativistic effects need large relative velocities. If both emitter and [edit] receiver do not move fast relative to each other, they will see nearly the same frequency.

As per my attached drawings, if EM were a rip running along space-time at the speed of light - this is how it could travel. The detailed drawing showing electricity, and the smaller one showing how magnetism travels in relation to the first.

I have designed it as a self propegating system - only traveling in spirals or fractals. when combined this should give a sine wave

Also, if photons had fractals at the front of them - could this explain neutrinos as being these fractals separated from the EM force? It would in my opinion explain a lot of the wave/particle questions. (things have mass because this fractal energy is bound by strong neuclear force? - could the strong neuclear force etc possibly be explained by the way in which light travels?) Rather than simply stating it as just being a wave?
This part does not make sense at all.
 
Last edited:
That is not a meaningful description.

as per minkowski spacetime, space and time are linked but can vary hyperbolically. i.e. mass moving close the speed of light next to another object which is relatively still - and likewise (as won't be able to tell which one is moving if there is no deceleration / acceleration on either). one would see the others mass as being shorter than it really is (due to time passing slower on the "moving" object from the perspective of the other) this happens as space has expanded due to the slowing of time - i think..

Stationary relative to what? There is no absolute "stationary". Different observers can see different frequencies, yes. This includes gamma rays.

Stationary relative to the velocity of the object that produced the light

Large relativistic effects need large relative velocities. If both emitter and sender do not move fast relative to each other, they will see nearly the same frequency.

I think you mean the emitter and receiver? I understand that principle, explains redshift a bit better with the expansion of space.

This part does not make sense at all.

No worries, i'll work on clarification / putting this into mathematical terms.

Thanks for the feedback
 
A photon has no meaningful 'extent' so how can it have a 'theoretical shape'? You could hazard a 'hypothetical shape' but there is no evidence (measurement), afaik, to support that hypothesis. It lies within the realm of personal models that don't really fit the brief of PF.
You can talk validly about wavelength changes but you can't have a model based on such a dodgy description of the photon.
 
Hicks88 said:
I think you mean the emitter and receiver?
Oops. Sure.

I understand that principle, explains redshift a bit better with the expansion of space.
Don't mix completely different concepts here.

No worries, i'll work on clarification / putting this into mathematical terms.
Before you do that, please check our forum rules, as personal theories are not allowed here.
 
mfb said:
Before you do that, please check our forum rules, as personal theories are not allowed here.

And on that note, thread locked.
 

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