Electron and proton between two plates

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the meeting point of a proton and an electron between two parallel plates separated by 4 cm, with an electric field strength of 100 N/C. The initial calculations incorrectly suggested a meeting distance of approximately 10^-13 m from the positive plate. However, through analysis of the forces and accelerations acting on both particles, it was established that the proton travels a distance of 2.18 x 10^-5 m before meeting the electron, which travels a significantly larger distance due to its lower mass. The correct approach involves using the ratio of their accelerations and distances traveled.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of electric fields and forces (F = qE)
  • Knowledge of kinematic equations (x = 1/2 at²)
  • Familiarity with mass and acceleration ratios (mp/me = 1833)
  • Basic concepts of potential energy and kinetic energy conservation (U_i + K_i = U_f + K_f)
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of mass ratios in particle motion within electric fields.
  • Learn about the conservation of energy in electric fields, focusing on potential and kinetic energy.
  • Explore the kinematic equations in greater depth, particularly in relation to varying forces.
  • Investigate the behavior of charged particles in uniform electric fields using simulations.
USEFUL FOR

Students in physics, particularly those studying electromagnetism, as well as educators and anyone interested in particle dynamics in electric fields.

cseil
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Homework Statement


Between two plates (distant 4cm) there's an electric field (E = 100N/C).
A proton starts moving from the positive plate and an electron starts moving from the negative plate.
At what distance from the positive plate do they meet? (is "meet the right verb here? :biggrin:)

Homework Equations


## a = qE/m ##
## v = at ##
## U = - \frac{e^2}{4\pi\epsilon_0 r}##
## U_i + K_i = U_f + K_f ##

The Attempt at a Solution


I calculated ##U_i##.
It is ##-5.76x10^{-27} J ##.

Now,
## U_i = Kf ##
and
## Kf = \frac{1}{2} m_p v_p^2 - \frac{1}{2}m_e v_e^2##

I replace ## v = at = \frac{eEt}{m} ##

## U_i = [\frac{1}{2} e^2E^2 ( \frac{1}{m_p} - \frac{1}{m_e})] t^2 ##
## t = 6.39x10^-12 s ##

## x(t) = \frac{1}{2} at^2 ##

I obtain a very small value of x. 10^-13 or so.
There's a big difference (4 orders of magnitude) between the acceleration of the electron, that's true.
But they meet at very very very small distance from the positive plate.

Could you tell me if this is right?

Thank you so much
 
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cseil said:

Homework Statement


Between two plates (distant 4cm) there's an electric field (E = 100N/C).
A proton starts moving from the positive plate and an electron starts moving from the negative plate.
At what distance from the positive plate do they meet? (is "meet the right verb here? :biggrin:)
...

I obtain a very small value of x. 10^-13 or so.
There's a big difference (4 orders of magnitude) between the acceleration of the electron, that's true.
But they meet at very very very small distance from the positive plate.

Could you tell me if this is right?

10^-13 in what units?
No, it is not right.
Think: Forces of the same magnitude act on both particles, F=qE. And you correctly wrote that the acceleration is a=qE/m.
me=9,11x10-31kg. mp=1.67x10-27kg.
The ratio of the masses mp/me=1833. What is the ratio of the accelerations?
Again you wrote correctly, that the distance traveled by one particle is x=a/2 t2. They travel for the same time. So what is the ratio of the distances they travelled?
 
ehild said:
10^-13 in what units?
No, it is not right.
Think: Forces of the same magnitude act on both particles, F=qE. And you correctly wrote that the acceleration is a=qE/m.
me=9,11x10-31kg. mp=1.67x10-27kg.
The ratio of the masses mp/me=1833. What is the ratio of the accelerations?
Again you wrote correctly, that the distance traveled by one particle is x=a/2 t2. They travel for the same time. So what is the ratio of the distances they travelled?

Sorry, I forgot to say the units. 10^-13 m!

The ratio of accelerations is ##\frac{a_p}{a_e} = \frac{1}{1833} ##
The ratio of distance is the same, because t is the same.

I don't understand how to use it, though
 
The proton travels x distance and the electron travels 1833 x distance. The sum of their distances is 4 cm. What is the distance traveled by the proton?
 
Oh, ok

## 0.04 = x(1833+1) ##

x is ##2.18x10^{-5}##m.

What was my mistake then?
 
I could not understand what you did.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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