Electron gyromagnetic ratio & lattice qft

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electron gyromagnetic ratio and its computation using perturbative and non-perturbative methods in quantum field theory (QFT). Participants explore the feasibility of lattice QFT for precise calculations, alternative non-perturbative approaches, and the implications of quantum corrections and fine-tuning in the context of the Higgs hierarchy problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants state that the electron gyromagnetic ratio is computed using perturbation methods and question whether non-perturbative lattice QFT can achieve similar precision.
  • Others argue that current computational power limits the precision of lattice calculations in 3+1 dimensions, making g-2 unsuitable for lattice treatment.
  • A participant inquires about other non-perturbative methods besides lattice QFT, suggesting approaches like partial resummation of perturbative expansion and effective theory modeling.
  • There is a discussion on whether the Higgs hierarchy problem persists in non-perturbative QFT, with some asserting that it would remain.
  • Participants question the nature of quantum corrections in non-perturbative QFT and how they relate to the hierarchy problem.
  • One participant notes the mixing of concepts such as quantum correction, perturbation, and renormalization, suggesting they can be understood independently.
  • There is a query about the extent to which fine-tuning and naturalness are artifacts of perturbation theory, with a participant asserting they are not.
  • Another participant raises the issue of how fine-tuning of the Higgs mass manifests in a non-perturbative formulation of the Standard Model, mentioning the dependence on UV cutoff in lattice studies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the applicability of lattice QFT for precise calculations and the implications of non-perturbative methods. The discussion on fine-tuning and naturalness also reveals differing perspectives, with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on computational power for lattice QFT, the unresolved nature of quantum corrections in non-perturbative contexts, and the ambiguity surrounding the definitions of fine-tuning and naturalness.

star apple
The electron gyromagnetic ratio of 1.0011596522 is computed using perturbation method and Feynman diagrams that is said to produce a value to better than one part in 10^10, or about three parts in 100 billion. Does the nonperturbative lattice QFT also able to compute it? What is the counterpart of the perturbation in the nonpertubation based lattice QFT?
 
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With presently existing computer power, lattice calculations are not suitable for very precise computations in 3+1 dimensions. For that reason, g-2 is not a quantity suitable for a lattice treatment. It can be computed in principle, but in practice it cannot be computed with such a big precision.
 
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Demystifier said:
With presently existing computer power, lattice calculations are not suitable for very precise computations in 3+1 dimensions. For that reason, g-2 is not a quantity suitable for a lattice treatment. It can be computed in principle, but in practice it cannot be computed with such a big precision.

What is other non-perturbative approach other than lattice QFT? But I want to know is if any non-perturbative method should still compute for perturbation.. meaning perturbation is part of nature? meaning QED doesn't have a cutoff even above the Landau pole?

Or if there is a natural cut-off. It means QED for example is really non-perturbative (asymptotically free) and our perturbation is just for sake of approximation? Is this how to think of it (or the logic)?
 
star apple said:
What is other non-perturbative approach other than lattice QFT?
Some of the approaches are partial resummation of perturbative expansion, effective theory modeling, lower dimensional analogues, axiomatic approaches, ...
 
Demystifier said:
Some of the approaches are partial resummation of perturbative expansion, effective theory modeling, lower dimensional analogues, axiomatic approaches, ...

Say.. about the Higgs Hierarchy Problems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_problem).. would we still have the same problem if we use non-perturbative QFT?
 
Demystifier said:
Yes we would.

Oh.. why is there still "quantum corrections" in non-perturbative QFT? Is it not the Hierarchy Problem is due to the quantum corrections.. so what is the counterpart of "quantum corrections" in non-perturbative QFT?

Perturbative means it is Taylor expansion and since we can't solve the higher order of the coupling constants. So we renormalize to lower power and eliminate the higher power. Does Non-perturbative means we can solve the higher power? But if it is infinite.. how can non-perturbation solve it?
 
star apple said:
Oh.. why is there still "quantum corrections" in non-perturbative QFT? Is it not the Hierarchy Problem is due to the quantum corrections.. so what is the counterpart of "quantum corrections" in non-perturbative QFT?

Perturbative means it is Taylor expansion and since we can't solve the higher order of the coupling constants. So we renormalize to lower power and eliminate the higher power. Does Non-perturbative means we can solve the higher power? But if it is infinite.. how can non-perturbation solve it?
You mix up some independent concepts such as quantum correction, perturbation and renormalization. Any of these concepts can make sense without the others.
 
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Demystifier said:
You mix up some independent concepts such as quantum correction, perturbation and renormalization. Any of these concepts can make sense without the others.

Ok thanks. I'd think of these 3 words over the weekend and study each independently in more details.. and bear it on the Higgs Hierarchy Problem next week.
 
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Demystifier said:
You mix up some independent concepts such as quantum correction, perturbation and renormalization. Any of these concepts can make sense without the others.

Oh. by the way.. forgot to add 2 more jargons.. fine tuning and naturalness..

To which extent is finetuning (and hence naturalness) an artefact of doing perturbation theory? Are there exactly soluble QFT's which suffer from naturalness/finetuning problems? Others are asking this same questions too.
 
  • #11
star apple said:
To which extent is finetuning (and hence naturalness) an artefact of doing perturbation theory?
Finetuning and naturalness are not artifacts of doing perturbation theory.

star apple said:
Are there exactly soluble QFT's which suffer from naturalness/finetuning problems? Others are asking this same questions too.
I'm sure there are, but I am not an expert in exactly solvable QFT's so I cannot give a concrete example.
 
  • #12
Demystifier said:
Finetuning and naturalness are not artifacts of doing perturbation theory.

Ah, ok. how would finetuning of the Higgs mass show up in a non-perturbative formulation of the SM? Thanks a lot.

I'm sure there are, but I am not an expert in exactly solvable QFT's so I cannot give a concrete example.
 
  • #13
star apple said:
Ah, ok. how would finetuning of the Higgs mass show up in a non-perturbative formulation of the SM? Thanks a lot.
For instance, if you study SM on the lattice, you have to choose some UV cutoff on the lattice. The physical quantities may strongly depend on that choice, which can lead to a fine tuning problem.
 
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