Electron orbital the earth will radiate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of an electron in a gravitational field, specifically whether it emits electromagnetic waves when influenced only by gravity. Participants explore concepts related to electron orbitals, the planetary model, and the implications of quantum theory and relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if an electron orbiting the Earth, influenced only by gravity, would emit electromagnetic waves and suggests that this could lead to a decay in its radius.
  • Another participant challenges the clarity of the initial question and discusses the planetary model, stating that an electron in such a model would emit waves due to acceleration, leading to energy loss.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that the planetary model is invalid and that electrons emit electromagnetic waves only when transitioning between energy levels.
  • Some participants introduce the concept of quantum theory, suggesting that an electron with a large quantum number could emit waves as it transitions to lower energy levels.
  • There is a discussion on the relativistic aspect of whether an electron held stationary in a gravitational field would emit electromagnetic waves, with one participant asserting that it would not.
  • Another participant emphasizes the principle of equivalence, questioning if a charge carrier in free fall can radiate, given that free fall is locally equivalent to inertial movement.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the principle of equivalence, noting that it applies locally in space-time and that an electron's electromagnetic field complicates this application.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of electrons in gravitational fields, particularly regarding wave emission and the applicability of the principle of equivalence. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the assumptions made about the electron's behavior in gravitational fields and the implications of quantum mechanics and relativity, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

magnetar
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If an electron orbital the Earth only influence by gravity,does it emit electromagnetic waves? if so, the radius will decay,eventually falling on earth?
 
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I have no idea what you mean by "an electric orbital the Earth only". Are you postulating an electron orbiting the earth? Why bother with such a strange example? Using the "planetary model", an electron orbiting the nucleus of an atom is accelerating and so must be emitting waves- which would result in its losing energy until it cannot orbit the nucleus. That is one of the things that led to the development of quantum physics. The "planetary model" is invalid and an electron emits electromagnetic waves only when goes from one "energy level" to another.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Are you postulating an electron orbiting the earth? Why bother with such a strange example? Using the "planetary model", an electron orbiting the nucleus of an atom is accelerating and so must be emitting waves- which would result in its losing energy until it cannot orbit the nucleus. That is one of the things that led to the development of quantum physics. The "planetary model" is invalid and an electron emits electromagnetic waves only when goes from one "energy level" to another.

Quantum theory approaches classical theory for large quantum numbers. An electron orbiting Earth by gravity alone is on an orbit with a large quantum number. Therefore it has a large number of lower energy levels, and can and will emit electromagnetic waves as it goes to lower energy levels.

The relativistic problem is whether an electron held stationary in a field of gravity would be emitting electromagnetic waves?
 
snorkack said:
The relativistic problem is whether an electron held stationary in a field of gravity would be emitting electromagnetic waves?

It would not.
 
Sorry, the original problem was relativistic after all.

Principle of equivalence says that free fall has to be indistinguishable from inertial movement.

Since a charge carrier moving in a straight line does not radiate, is a charge carrier in free fall allowed to radiate?
 
snorkack said:
Principle of equivalence says that free fall has to be indistinguishable from inertial movement.
Let's clear some stuff up first. The principle of equivalence says that free fall is locally equivalent to inertial movement. It also says that being at rest in a static gravitational field (meaning following orbits of the time translation symmetry) is locally equivalent to acceleration. All these things presuppose that the system one is working with is local in space-time. An electron carries an electromagnetic field which fails to satisfy this requirement so the equivalence principle does not apply here.
 

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