Electrons exposed to time-dependent force

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of an electron in a metal subjected to a time-dependent force, specifically focusing on the contributions to momentum change over a small time interval. Participants explore the implications of including higher-order terms in the momentum equation as presented in Ashcroft and Mermin's text.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the origin of the dt^2 term in the momentum change equation, suggesting that the change in momentum can be simplified to f(t)dt based on Newton's second law.
  • Another participant explains that the dt^2 term arises because the force f(t) is not constant over the interval, indicating a relationship to the derivative of f(t).
  • A later reply reiterates the point about the non-constancy of f(t) and questions the necessity of the dt^2 term, suggesting that Newton's second law should suffice for determining momentum change.
  • One participant concludes that using a first-order Taylor series expansion for the force at t+dt reveals how the additional dt term emerges in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and origin of the dt^2 term, with some advocating for its inclusion based on the non-constancy of the force, while others maintain that Newton's second law alone should suffice for the analysis. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the assumptions made about the force f(t) and the mathematical treatment of momentum change, particularly in relation to Taylor series approximations and the limits of Newton's second law.

M-Speezy
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
I have begun studying Ashcroft + Mermin on my own, and am trying to follow the math in the text. They suggest that an electron in a metal with some momentum p(t) and exposed to a force f(t) will at some time later (t+dt) have a contribution to the momentum on the order of f(t)dt plus another term on the order of dt*dt. My question is where does this dt^2 term enter? My instinct is to say that F=dp/dt, and that the change in momentum can then be given (very simplistically?) by f(t)dt. Obviously, a form of f(t) and an integral is in order, but I cannot see the logic of what is stated in the text.

Any and all help or guidance on the matter would be greatly appreciated!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The term of order dt^2 comes from the fact that f(t) is not necessarily constant in time. It is related to the derivative of f(t).
 
Orodruin said:
The term of order dt^2 comes from the fact that f(t) is not necessarily constant in time. It is related to the derivative of f(t).
Why does this matter, though? I would think Newton's 2nd law would be used, and then a change in the momentum would simply be given by f(t)dt. I'm not sure what else should be done to lead to anything else.
 
It is just using Newton's second law, but Newton's second law is just the limit when dt goes to zero and so agrees with your result.
 
I figured it out I think. If the force at t+dt is instead expressed using a first-order approximated taylor series, then the extra dt comes out.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
12K