Elementary analytic geometry textbook recommendation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the adequacy of explanations and proofs in elementary analytic geometry textbooks, particularly regarding the scaling of 2D vectors and the completeness of proofs for related theorems. Participants express concerns about the lack of thoroughness in the presentation of mathematical concepts and proofs, as well as the implications for self-learning in mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant criticizes a textbook for only covering specific cases of scaling a 2D vector and not providing complete proofs for various scenarios, such as non-positive slopes and vertical line segments.
  • Another participant argues that the ratio PR/PQ remains positive as long as R lies between P and Q, regardless of the slope of segment PQ.
  • Some participants express frustration over the expectation that students should fill in incomplete proofs themselves, suggesting that textbooks should provide complete proofs or at least clarify which cases are not covered.
  • There is a suggestion that the study of mathematics requires a different approach, implying that self-teaching is essential, but this is met with resistance from others who feel that textbooks should be more comprehensive.
  • One participant introduces the concept of the Ruler Postulate and the definition of a metric, suggesting that these could provide a framework for understanding the length of line segments in different geometries.
  • Another participant questions whether the rigor expected in explanations should match that of formal proofs, indicating a potential difference in expectations among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the adequacy of textbook explanations and proofs, with some advocating for more thorough coverage while others believe that self-learning and filling in gaps is part of the mathematical process. No consensus is reached on the necessity of complete proofs in textbooks.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the textbooks regarding the completeness of proofs and the assumptions made in the explanations provided. There is also a discussion about the varying expectations of rigor in mathematical explanations versus formal proofs.

LittleRookie
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Every explanation about scaling a 2D vector, or equivalently having a line segment PQ on cartesian plane and then find a point R on the line PQ satisfying PR/PQ = r (fixed given r) starts with that one specific case in the picture. A formula for the coordinates of R is then given for that case.

However, that is also the only case that is covered. The cases whereby the slope is non-positive and the line segment PQ is vertical are not shown to share the same formula. Also, the case of point Q being the head of the vector is not proved.

Furthermore, they will then tell you that the case for r>1 is equivalent to R extending from the segment PQ and the case r is negative is simply all the above but now put R in the opposite direction, and "miraculously" the same formula given at the start will work.

And lastly, they don't even mention that suppose a point on the cartesian plane satisfy the formula, then they are the point R as discussed in the theorem. i.e. the converse of the theorem.

It's so frustrating to need to spot incomplete proofs and filling up the proofs by myself when the book is supposed to teach me. Does anyone know of an elementary analytic geometry book with complete proofs?
 
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LittleRookie said:
the book is supposed to teach me
That's not exactly how math works. You are supp0sed to teach yourself by understanding the subject matter, follow through some examples and do the exercises (that often bring up questions like yours).
The book you are looking for would be too thick to handle, e.g. like

1577278058277.png
 
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BvU said:
That's not exactly how math works. You are supp0sed to teach yourself by understanding the subject matter, follow through some examples and do the exercises (that often bring up questions like yours).
The book you are looking for would be too think to handle, e.g. like

I meant if the author discusses a theorem and its proof, then the least that the author can do is to provide a complete proof, or if the proof requires further knowledge, the author can mention which cases are not provided with proof because so and so. Furthermore, the complete proof of the theorem that I've mentioned does not require further knowledge.

I agree that we have to understand the proof on our own (is that what you meant by teach yourself?) However, you can't if the complete proof is not provided. The student will then end up looking for a complete proof elsewhere.
 
LittleRookie said:
View attachment 254672Every explanation about scaling a 2D vector, or equivalently having a line segment PQ on cartesian plane and then find a point R on the line PQ satisfying PR/PQ = r (fixed given r) starts with that one specific case in the picture. A formula for the coordinates of R is then given for that case.

However, that is also the only case that is covered. The cases whereby the slope is non-positive and the line segment PQ is vertical are not shown to share the same formula.
It doesn't make any difference if the slope of the segment PQ is negative. The ratio PR/PQ will still be a positive number as long as R lies between P and Q.
LittleRookie said:
Also, the case of point Q being the head of the vector is not proved.
For the vector ##\overline{PQ}##, Q is the head of the vector. Did you mean when P is the head of the vector? I.e., ##\overline{QP}##.
LittleRookie said:
Furthermore, they will then tell you that the case for r>1 is equivalent to R extending from the segment PQ and the case r is negative is simply all the above but now put R in the opposite direction, and "miraculously" the same formula given at the start will work.
LittleRookie said:
And lastly, they don't even mention that suppose a point on the cartesian plane satisfy the formula, then they are the point R as discussed in the theorem. i.e. the converse of the theorem.

It's so frustrating to need to spot incomplete proofs and filling up the proofs by myself when the book is supposed to teach me. Does anyone know of an elementary analytic geometry book with complete proofs?
As @BvU already mentioned, no textbooks will provide complete proofs of every possible variation of every statement. Many textbooks will leave things with "the proof is left to the reader."
 
Although not sufficient. Have you looked into something called the Ruler Postulate and to a greater extant, the definition of a metric? As someone mentioned above, we could define the length of line segments as ratios. In one representation of Hyperbolic Geometry, we use something called a cross ratio.
 
LittleRookie said:
I meant if the author discusses a theorem and its proof, then the least that the author can do is to provide a complete proof, or if the proof requires further knowledge, the author can mention which cases are not provided with proof because so and so. Furthermore, the complete proof of the theorem that I've mentioned does not require further knowledge.

I agree that we have to understand the proof on our own (is that what you meant by teach yourself?) However, you can't if the complete proof is not provided. The student will then end up looking for a complete proof elsewhere.
I think you are approaching the study of mathematics the wrong way...
 
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MidgetDwarf said:
I think you are approaching the study of mathematics the wrong way...
😮 Why so? Please enlighten me. 🙏
 
LittleRookie said:
Every explanation about scaling a 2D vector, or equivalently having a line segment PQ on cartesian plane and then find a point R on the line PQ satisfying PR/PQ = r (fixed given r) starts with that one specific case in the picture. A formula for the coordinates of R is then given for that case.

However, that is also the only case that is covered. The cases whereby the slope is non-positive and the line segment PQ is vertical are not shown to share the same formula. Also, the case of point Q being the head of the vector is not proved.
MidgetDwarf said:
I think you are approaching the study of mathematics the wrong way...
LittleRookie said:
😮 Why so? Please enlighten me. 🙏
@LittleRookie, the comment by @MidgetDwarf might relate to your opening post in this thread. In your post you mention an explanation about scaling a 2D vector and complain that every possible case is not proved. Although the image you copied shows a vector in the first quadrant that has a positive slope, the points at either end of the vector are arbitrary, so don't depend on any particular orientation of the vectors involved. I think I already mentioned that it makes no difference about the slope being non-positive. Further, it makes no difference that I can see if the vectors are vertical, or even if the vectors point in opposite directions.

It seems to me that you are saying that an explanation of a calculation must show the same rigor as the proof of a theorem, which is not necessarily the case. For your example, and the cases you say are being omitted, it should be a simple matter to fill in the steps.
 

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