Index placement on 4-potential

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter dyn
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Index Placement
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the placement and interpretation of indices in the 4-potential within the context of electromagnetism, specifically focusing on the metric diag(1,-1,-1,-1). Participants explore the relationships between the scalar and vector potentials and their components, as well as the implications of covariant and contravariant indices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the component A1 should equal -A1 based on the given metric, suggesting a potential misunderstanding of index placement.
  • Another participant cautions against confusing the different meanings of A1, asking for clarification on whether it refers to the Cartesian components of the 3-vector or the covariant components of the 4-vector.
  • A participant clarifies that A1 refers to the x-component of the 3-vector A and asserts that A1 does not need to equal -Ax, emphasizing the distinction between covariant and contravariant components.
  • There is a query regarding the correctness of an equation involving the electric field E and its relationship to the potentials, specifically addressing a sign change in the terms and the use of A1 for Ax.
  • A later reply elaborates on the equation, showing the transformations between the components of the potentials and the electromagnetic field tensor, while also noting that E and B are not vectors but components of an antisymmetric tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the components of the 4-potential and the implications of the metric. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct interpretation of the indices and the associated equations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the relationships between the components of the 4-potential and the electric field, as well as the dependence on specific definitions of covariant and contravariant components.

dyn
Messages
774
Reaction score
63
Hi.
I am working through some notes which use the following metric diag(1,-1,-1,-1).
They give the 4-potential as ( Aμ ) = ( V/c , A ) where V is the scalar potential and A is the vector potential. This should mean in components A0 = V/c and A1 = A1 and so on but with the metric given shouldn't A1 = - A1 ?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Be careful not to confuse potential different meanings of ##A_1## and ##A_1##. When you write ##A_1##, do you mean the Cartesian components of the 3-vector ##\vec A## or the covariant components of the 4-vector ##A##?
 
When I wrote A1 I meant Ax ie. the x-component of the 3-vector A
 
dyn said:
When I wrote A1 I meant Ax ie. the x-component of the 3-vector A
Then no. It is not necessary that ##A^1 = - A_x## as ##A_x## is not the same as ##A_1##. The sign difference is between the covariant and contravariant spatial components of the 4-potential. As I said, do not confuse the components of a 3-vector with the covariant (or contravariant for that matter) components of a 4-vector. Typically, the generalisation of a 3-vector to a 4-vector will be such that the 3-vector components are the same as the covariant components of the 4-vector, but this may sometimes be subject to sign conventions and if the 3-vector is more naturally viewed as having covariant or contravariant components. In some cases, there is no 4-vector generalisation of the 3-vector at all, such as in the case of the electric and magnetic field where their components instead together constitute the components of the electromagnetic field tensor.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dyn
Thanks. I asked the question because I don't understand the following question. Using E = -∇V - ∂tA the x-component is given as E1/c = -∂x(V/c) -(1/c)∂tA1 = ∂1A0 - ∂0A1
Is this equation correct ? If so , I don't understand the sign change on the 1st term and it seems to me it uses A1 for Ax
 
dyn said:
Using E = -∇V - ∂tA the x-component is given as E1/c = -∂x(V/c) -(1/c)∂tA1 = ∂1A0 - ∂0A1

Say ##x^0=ct, V=A^0##,
E^1=-\frac{\partial V}{\partial x^1}-\frac{\partial A^1}{\partial x^0}
=-\frac{\partial A^0}{\partial x^1}-\frac{\partial A^1}{\partial x^0}
=-\frac{\partial A_0}{\partial x^1}+\frac{\partial A_1}{\partial x^0}
=\frac{\partial A_1}{\partial x^0}-\frac{\partial A_0}{\partial x^1}
=F_{10}=-F^{10}
where
F_{\mu\nu}=\frac{\partial A_\mu}{\partial x^\nu}-\frac{\partial A_\mu}{\partial x^\nu}

Similarly ##B^1=F_{23}=F^{23}##
Actually E and B are not vectors but components of antisymmetric electromagnetic tensor F.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dyn

Similar threads

  • · Replies 59 ·
2
Replies
59
Views
7K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K