EM length of gravitational waves

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the length of gravitational waves in comparison to traditional electromagnetic (EM) wavelengths. Participants explore the relationship between gravitational wave frequencies and their corresponding wavelengths, as well as the implications of comparing gravitational and EM waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the length of newly found gravitational waves in terms of traditional EM wavelengths, suggesting that it might correspond to the frequency of orbiting bodies.
  • Others argue that comparing gravitational waves and EM waves may not make sense unless a unified theory is established.
  • A participant notes that the detected gravitational waves had varying frequencies, described as a "chirp," and suggests looking up the wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum for comparison.
  • Some contributions highlight that the wavelengths of gravitational waves detected by LIGO are thought to be tens of light-years, while others emphasize that the actual wavelengths have not been measured directly.
  • There is a discussion about the frequency range of the detected waves, with a suggestion to calculate the wavelength using the formula v = fλ, where the frequency varied from about 30 Hz to a few hundred Hz.
  • One participant points out that while gravitational and EM waves are similar in form and propagate at the speed of light, their comparison remains contentious.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of comparing gravitational waves to EM waves, with some asserting similarities while others maintain that such comparisons are inappropriate without a unified theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific lengths and characteristics of gravitational waves.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between gravitational and EM wavelengths, as well as the lack of direct measurements of gravitational wave wavelengths.

pioneerboy
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Maybe a stupid question and maybe sensless to ask, but as I don't know, I ask anyway:
what is the length of the newly found gravitational waves in terms of traditional EM wavelengths?
 
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pioneerboy said:
Maybe a stupid question and maybe sensless to ask, but as I don't know, I ask anyway:
what is the length of the newly found gravitational waves in terms of traditional EM wavelengths?

I would think it would be the same as the frequency with which the two bodies orbited one another. I'd think that would be gigameters.
 
pioneerboy said:
what is the length of the newly found gravitational waves in terms of traditional EM wavelengths?

unless they finally come together in the "unified theory" that physicists are searching for
putting gravitational waves and EM waves in the same sentence doesn't make senseDave
 
pioneerboy said:
what is the length of the newly found gravitational waves in terms of traditional EM wavelengths?

The range of wavelengths is mentioned in this post in the humongous thread about this experiment in our relativity forum:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/advanced-ligo-detection.836670/page-6#post-5374990

It's a range because the signal didn't have a constant wavelength and frequency. The frequency increased with time (and the wavelength decreased) in a pattern that has been described as a "chirp."

If by "in terms of traditional EM wavelengths" you mean which electromagnetic waves have similar wavelengths, look up the wavelengths referenced above, in a diagram of the electromagnetic spectrum on Wikipedia or elsewhere. I'm on my way to dinner... :oldwink:
 
Last edited:
From the article you cited:
If two black holes are stably orbiting each other, they produce a continuous stream of gravitational waves at twice the orbital frequency, carrying away the system's rotational energy and angular momentum. Such ripples are thought to have wavelengths that are tens of light-years and are relatively weak.
(I added the boldface.) But these are not the gravitational waves that LIGO detected.

What LIGO detected was the stronger waves radiated as the two BHs were spiraling towards each other, faster and faster (higher and higher frequency), just before they merged. I can't lay my fingers on it at the moment, but I remember reading that the detected frequency varied from maybe 30 Hz up to a few hundred Hz. Choose 100 Hz as a typical value. Using v = fλ and v = c = 300000 km/s, what do you get for λ?
 
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jtbell said:
From the article you cited:

(I added the boldface.) But these are not the gravitational waves that LIGO detected.

What LIGO detected was the stronger waves radiated as the two BHs were spiraling towards each other, faster and faster (higher and higher frequency), just before they merged. I can't lay my fingers on it at the moment, but I remember reading that the detected frequency varied from maybe 30 Hz up to a few hundred Hz. Choose 100 Hz as a typical value. Using v = fλ and v = c = 300000 km/s, what do you get for λ?
Thanks for clarification.
 
davenn said:
unless they finally come together in the "unified theory" that physicists are searching for
putting gravitational waves and EM waves in the same sentence doesn't make senseDave

Yes, but gravity waves and EM waves are quite similar in form. They are both consequences of an attractive force in 3+1D. They both propagate at c. So the wavelengths seem like the same thing to me.
 

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