Energy: Abstract Concept or Entity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptual nature of energy, specifically whether it can be defined as an entity or if it is merely a property associated with physical systems. Participants explore the implications of defining energy in various ways, including its mathematical representations and its relationship to other physical concepts like momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that energy is a useful number associated with a physical system, while others argue it is not an entity but rather a property, similar to momentum.
  • A participant suggests that energy can be defined as an entity if one deliberately adjusts the definition of "entity" to include it.
  • There is a discussion about the dimensions of energy, with references to its representation in equations like kinetic energy.
  • Some participants challenge the notion of "entity" as a scientific term, questioning its standard definition and applicability in physics.
  • One participant asserts that energy is measurable and quantized, thus qualifying it as an entity under a specific definition, while others contest this view.
  • References to external sources and definitions are made, with varying opinions on their relevance and accuracy.
  • Questions arise regarding the nature of properties and the information they convey about physical entities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on whether energy can be classified as an entity, with no consensus reached. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations of definitions and the implications of those definitions on the understanding of energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity in the term "entity" and its scientific versus non-scientific meanings. The discussion also touches on the limitations of definitions and the dependence on context when discussing energy and its properties.

  • #31
Excellent, thank you @physics pfan for providing an actual reference which defines entity. The definition in this reference is “ an entity is something physically real (i.e., of mass or energy) that has a presence in a dimension”

physics pfan said:
'Entity' is an assumption all physicists make about reality
Let’s not go overboard here. It is a definition in one obscure reference used by a single author, hardly “all physicists”. But at least it is a published definition of the term.

physics pfan said:
an entity is something measurable and quantized that resides (extends) in a dimension.
Please don’t misquote your own source.

Maurice Morelock said:
Can energy be defined as an entity?
So according to the above definition, no, energy is not an entity. It is a property of entities.
 
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  • #32
Is a property of a physical entity information about the entity? Is the information encoded?

In physics can the encoding be arbitrary or is it restricted by the properties themselves?I would answer yes to the first question and yes to the second.
Answering the third question would mean thinking about physical units and how these are encoded so I can distinguish different units. Ahem
 
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  • #33
You all know this is a "hit and run" thread; the OP didn't stick around to see the answer to his questions.
 
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  • #34
Anko said:
Is a property of a physical entity information about the entity?
Yes.
Anko said:
Is the information encoded?
I don't know what this means in this context.
Anko said:
In physics can the encoding be arbitrary or is it restricted by the properties themselves?
Same as above.
 
  • #35
Drakkith said:
I don't know what this means in this context.
Encoding is an information-theoretic term.
Without an encoding there is exactly zero information.

Physical units in standard form are what we use to decide what is or how to decode physical information.
 
  • #36
weirdoguy said:
Again - do you have any professional scientific reference that defines the term “entity” that way? I'm a physicist and the only thing I can say about what you write is "nonsense". Sorry.
I believe "entity" is being used abstractly in that article for a class of objects. Substituting one gets: "a particle is something measurable and quantized that resides (extends) in a dimension." Do you object to that statement?

This becomes a test for reality modeled after the particle. Can a particle be physically real and lack one of these requirements: measurable, quantized and space-extending? I think not.

But a photon is as physically real as a rest mass particle; it's just that it is mysterious to us (e.g., photon dualism). The point of the article is to apply this test to inquire which dimension is required to make the following true. "The photon is something measurable and quantized that resides (extends) in a dimension."

I suggest reading the article fully and substitute “object” wherever it reads “entity.”
 
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  • #37
physics pfan said:
This becomes a test for reality modeled after the particle. Can a particle be physically real and lack one of these requirements: measurable, quantized and space-extending? I think not.
”Real” is a question of metaphysics, not physics. We do not discuss philosophy here. Your listed requirements are objectionable, but this forum is emphatically not the place for it.
 

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