Energy and states of a particle in a box.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the energy of a classical particle in a box and the number of possible states in momentum space. Participants explore the calculation of entropy as a function of energy, particularly focusing on why the number of states increases with kinetic energy despite the number of directional possibilities remaining constant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the number of degrees of freedom for a classical particle in a box is 6, consisting of position and momentum.
  • Another participant explains that the phase space volume element in momentum space is proportional to the surface area of a sphere, which increases with the radius corresponding to kinetic energy.
  • A participant questions why the number of possible states increases with kinetic energy, arguing that the number of directions of momentum does not change with energy.
  • Another participant challenges this view, stating that the phase space volume includes a factor of ##p^2##, which accounts for the increase in the number of states as momentum increases.
  • One participant reiterates the argument about the number of states being equal to the number of positions times the number of directions, suggesting that an increase in momentum should not affect the number of possible states.
  • A later reply refutes this claim, emphasizing that the mathematical treatment of phase space shows that the increase in volume due to the factor of ##p^2## is crucial for understanding the increase in states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between momentum, direction, and the number of possible states. Some participants support the mathematical basis for the increase in states with energy, while others maintain that the number of directions does not change with momentum.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding phase space volume and its implications for entropy calculations, but it remains unresolved whether the directional argument holds validity against the mathematical formulation.

Higgsono
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Suppose we have a classical particle in box. The number of degrees of freedom is 6. The position of the particle and its momenta.

Now if we want to calculate the entropy of the system as a function of the energy we only need to find a relation between all the possible states the particle can be in and its kinetic energy.

The possible states in momentum space is proportional to the surface area of a sphere with radius p, where E=p^2/(2m).

But what I don't understand is this: Why do the number of possible states in momentum space increase with an increase in the kinetic energy of the particle? Sure, the area of the sphere increses with an increase in radius. But why can't we just say that the number of possible states is proportional to the direction of the vector p from the origin? In this case the number of directions which would be the same as the number of possible states of p does not increase with an increase in energy. The number of possible directions is the same independent of the magnitude of p.

So why do we say that the number of possible states increases when the particles momentum increases?
 
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Essentially because the phase space volume element is ##dp_1dp_2dp_3dV##. Going to spherical coordinates in the momentum variables gives you a factor ##p^2## from the Jacobian determinant.

In essence, the reason is therefore the same as why a sphere with larger radius has a larger surface area.
 
Orodruin said:
Essentially because the phase space volume element is ##dp_1dp_2dp_3dV##. Going to spherical coordinates in the momentum variables gives you a factor ##p^2## from the Jacobian determinant.

In essence, the reason is therefore the same as why a sphere with larger radius has a larger surface area.

But the number of states should be equal to the number of positions times the number of directions in which the particle can move through this point. And since an increase in momentum doesn't increase the number of possible directions, the number of possibles states should not increase either.
 
Higgsono said:
But the number of states should be equal to the number of positions times the number of directions in which the particle can move through this point. And since an increase in momentum doesn't increase the number of possible directions, the number of possibles states should not increase either.
This is just not true. If you look at what the phase space volume actually is, you get the factor of ##p^2##. The "number of directions" is a handwaving argument with no basis in the mathematics. If you do the math right using the actual phase space volume you get the right result.
 

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