Energy minimisation, confusion in interpretation of question

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the thermodynamic principle that minimizing energy E(S, V, N) under fixed entropy S, volume V, and number of particles N leads to the equilibrium state of a system. The initial interpretation suggested that dE = 0 indicates fixed entropy, volume, and number of particles. However, the correct interpretation emphasizes that energy is minimized when S, V, and N are held constant, as dictated by the second law of thermodynamics. The conversation raises questions about scenarios where minimizing energy could maintain constant S, V, and N without prior specification.

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  • Understanding of thermodynamic principles, particularly the second law of thermodynamics.
  • Familiarity with the concepts of entropy, volume, and particle number in thermodynamic systems.
  • Knowledge of energy minimization techniques in statistical mechanics.
  • Basic grasp of thermodynamic potentials and their derivations.
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  • Study the implications of the second law of thermodynamics on energy minimization.
  • Explore the concept of thermodynamic equilibrium and its relation to entropy, volume, and particle number.
  • Investigate the derivation of thermodynamic potentials and their applications in energy minimization.
  • Examine case studies where energy minimization leads to constant entropy, volume, and particle number.
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This discussion is beneficial for students and professionals in thermodynamics, physicists, and researchers focusing on energy minimization in thermodynamic systems.

Dazed&Confused
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Perhaps not an appropriate place to ask this. I've completed a question which is phrased as the following:

Explain, on thermodynamical grounds, why the minimisation of the energy [itex]E(S, V, N)[/itex] yields the equilibrium state of a system with fixed entropy S, volume V and number of particles [itex]N[/itex].

I had one interpretation, to show that minimisation of the energy, i.e. that [itex]dE = 0[/itex], leads to a fixed entropy, volume, and number of particles.

The correct interpretation was actually to show that under fixed, entropy, and number of particles the energy is minimised, using the second law. To me, this does not make sense, however it did lead to one question: is there a situation where minimising [itex]E[/itex] would lead to a constant entropy, volume, and number of particles where this was not specified initially?
 
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Dazed&Confused said:
The correct interpretation was actually to show that under fixed, entropy, and number of particles the energy is minimised, using the second law.
... that's how I read it. The state is given by the numbers (S,V,N).

To me, this does not make sense, however it did lead to one question: is there a situation where minimising [itex]E[/itex] would lead to a constant entropy, volume, and number of particles where this was not specified initially?
... what would the constraint be? Minimum energy could be zero for zero particles.
 
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Ok thanks. Ignore my question.

What I do not understand is why if [itex]E(S,V,N)[/itex] does constant [itex]S, V, N[/itex] not mean constant [itex]E[/itex].

I've seen the derivation using the availability but I'm not sure why the supposed contradiction isn't one.
 
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