Engineering Job Opportunies Question

[VoloD]

Hello PF

I have a BS in Physics and I am currently enrolled in a Masters of Electrical Engineering program. I have had significant difficulty finding jobs/ Interns despite my efforts. I will complete my program in a year and I feel like I am no closer to finding a job.

Sometimes I really question if engineering is really the field everyone makes it out to be. I am pursuing it because its something that I really want to do. But I have to admit sometimes I get tempted by the success of other professions. And I have read that some other engineers have the same or a similar problem in job search.

Essentially unless
a) you had a personal affiliation with someone at a company
b) you had internship/co-op with said company "competitive process"
c) you had worked a engineering job prior to your education, so upon graduation you get the same job with better pay or transfer to another company,
the chances of you having a job will be an uphill battle despite having an BS or MS engineering.

I am really trying to ask for some advice. Thank You.

 

[berkeman]

One thing that can help is if you have worked on projects of your own, and can show prospective employers what you have done. That's one reason that I encourage students to build electronics kit projects, to start to learn how they are built, and how they work. You end up asking more detailed questions when you actually have to get something to work.

What kind of interests do you have? Are you more into the circuits/systems side of EE, or more into programming? What are your specialties so far? What kind of circuits have you built so far? Can you think of a fun project where you could put something together that shows off your knowledge? For instance, you could design and build an FPGA+uC based equalizer if you are into music. Or you could design and build some projects based on the small uC boards that are available now (like Arduino, PIC, etc.).

 

[VoloD]

Well my currently pursued specialization for my MS In EE is Materials Science and Engineering. I would say that my primary interest is in electronic materials, which is the emphasis of education right now. I have used small uC boards like Arduino and I have some basic experience with Matlab but not much. I have used Unix a lot but I don't think that it counts.

 

[Dale]

the chances of you having a job will be an uphill battle despite having an BS or MS engineering

Yes. Finding a job is usually an uphill battle, so expect it and work even harder at getting the job. Your personal network and personal communication skills are important.

 

[VoloD]

Okay then. How does one increase their network. And I don't mind communication, but how do you get to know the right people.

My big regret with engineering is that despite how people overhype it, the fact is that it has the same difficulties when actually getting the job.
I always felt that if you had an engineering degree you should easily be able to get a job with little effort (since that's how it's marketed) are you saying that not true.

 

[symbolipoint]

Okay then. How does one increase their network. And I don't mind communication, but how do you get to know the right people.

My big regret with engineering is that despite how people overhype it, the fact is that it has the same difficulties when actually getting the job.
I always felt that if you had an engineering degree you should easily be able to get a job with little effort (since that's how it's marketed) are you saying that not true.

Companies looking for technologists or scientists want to find people who have skills and knowledge. A person who wants to be hired must be able to show, prove, demonstrate exactly what some of these skills and abilities are. You may have employment interviews, and the companies or principles there may read/see your resume and transcripts. The interviewer would probably ask you what you did or what you know from attending certain courses. IF you impress these interviewers, you could possibly be hired with very little, if any, networking; but part of networking is actually to deal with people, and to talk to people.

 

[VoloD]

Why was the government push for more graduates overall when there was already a surplus of them?

The government is primarily reacting to reports from business saying that there isn't enough engineers in the country. But the government isn't very good at properly understanding what this means, or perhaps doesn't care all that much because it's not a City problem. What it means is that usually at the senior level, there isn't enough engineers with X years of experience with A, B and C skills. It does not mean that there are not enough STEM graduates. It can take several years for a company to transform a typical engineering graduate into an actual productive engineer in industry. It takes a lot of time and investment, and companies are often reluctant to invest a senior's time into training a graduate when said senior is often required elsewhere.

This is a student room posting and I think it clarifies the topic.

 

[VoloD]

" but part of networking is actually to deal with people, and to talk to people."

I understand that talking to the right people is needed. Is there any way to mock interview with companies. I honestly am trying to find work.

 

[Dale]

Okay then. How does one increase their network. And I don't mind communication, but how do you get to know the right people.

My big regret with engineering is that despite how people overhype it, the fact is that it has the same difficulties when actually getting the job.
I always felt that if you had an engineering degree you should easily be able to get a job with little effort (since that's how it's marketed) are you saying that not true.

Trade shows and conventions are a good way to build a network. Also, personal connections, start with people you know and have them introduce you to others.

No degree will hand you a job with little effort. You will always be in competition with many other qualified candidates. The job will take effort, so will the job search.

 

[VoloD]

[QUOTE="DaleSpam,

No degree will hand you a job with little effort. You will always be in competition with many other qualified candidates. The job will take effort, so will the job search.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the advice, I will try seeking those out.

More importantly, thank you for being one of the few honest people out here. I don't know your background, but at least you see things rationally.

 

[Dale]

You are welcome. At the same time, don't be discouraged. It may not be as easy or automatic as you had anticipated, but once you recognize that you can use that to push through and do the hard work needed. You can be rationally optimistic.

 

[russ_watters]

I always felt that if you had an engineering degree you should easily be able to get a job with little effort (since that's how it's marketed) are you saying that not true.

Little effort when compared to an Art History major, but there is no field where they make confetti with all the superfluous job offers to throw at graduation.

In today's job market, it should be possible to secure a job prior to graduation, but it isn't a guarantee and you do have to work at it. Yes, networking is important and always will be. Yes, getting experience through an intership is a big help.

Okay then. How does one increase their network. And I don't mind communication, but how do you get to know the right people.

Joining student and professional organizations. Get an internship. Do a capstone project with an industry advisor.

Why was the government push for more graduates overall when there was already a surplus of them?

You're misunderstanding: Difficulty finding a job is a normal, every-day fact of life. It does not mean that there is a surplus of STEM grads. Remember, an unemployment rate can only ever be positive. It can't be zero or negative (though there is another rate, less publicized, of unfilled positions).

 

[russ_watters]

An article on STEM prospects:

It should be well-accepted that the U.S. economy could use more workers with high levels of knowledge in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. The shortage of these skilled STEM professionals eased during the recession, but by any conventional definition, now it appears to have returned.

For one thing, wages have grown relatively fast in most STEM-oriented occupations, which is a clear indication of a shortage. From 2000 to 2013, analyzing Bureau of Labor Statistics data and adjusting for inflation, median salaries for workers in computer and mathematical, health care practitioner, engineering, and science occupations rose 8 percent, 7 percent, 6 percent and 5 percent respectively, even as those for the average U.S. worker showed no growth...

In addition, vacancies for STEM jobs are going unfilled in large numbers. My recent report analyzes this phenomenon using a rich database with millions of vacancies posted on company websites compiled by Burning Glass, a labor market analytics firm. There are some 40,000 computer science bachelor’s degree earners each year but roughly 4 million job vacancies for computer workers. In all, the median duration of advertising for STEM vacancies is more than twice that of those in other fields.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/09/15/the-stem-worker-shortage-is-real

 

[ModusPwnd]

I agree with you VoloD, there is a glut of STEM graduates and applicants and this makes finding a job hard. Engineering is the more or most marketable of STEM degrees, but that doesn't make it easy to find work. Finding a job before graduation is almost unheard of in my circles. We get engineering grads and even applicants with masters degrees applying to be technicians and basic process engineers. We turn them down in droves.

I think an internship is a great idea and I would do whatever it takes to get one. You mentioned you had problems finding one. Does your program not set you up with an internship?

 

[clope023]

Okay then. How does one increase their network. And I don't mind communication, but how do you get to know the right people.

My big regret with engineering is that despite how people overhype it, the fact is that it has the same difficulties when actually getting the job.
I always felt that if you had an engineering degree you should easily be able to get a job with little effort (since that's how it's marketed) are you saying that not true.

It was never true, an engineering degree is not a golden ticket to a job.

 

[VoloD]

I agree with you VoloD, there is a glut of STEM graduates and applicants and this makes finding a job hard. Engineering is the more or most marketable of STEM degrees, but that doesn't make it easy to find work. Finding a job before graduation is almost unheard of in my circles. We get engineering grads and even applicants with masters degrees applying to be technicians and basic process engineers. We turn them down in droves.

I think an internship is a great idea and I would do whatever it takes to get one. You mentioned you had problems finding one. Does your program not set you up with an internship?

My university has a placement center that I recently found out about. I will most likely try that out before the next semester starts. Officially, we don't have a ingrained internship program like some major universities. To be fair, my first school did not have an intern matching program for engineering either, both only use career fairs and other related services.

 

[VoloD]

It was never true, an engineering degree is not a golden ticket to a job.

Any idea as to the cause of 'proclaimed shortage'. And I am confident engineering has a bigger market than most liberal/fine art degrees. However this level of difficulty job searching has to based on more than just mere competition.

 

[clope023]

Any idea as to the cause of 'proclaimed shortage'. And I am confident engineering has a bigger market than most liberal/fine art degrees. However this level of difficulty job searching has to based on more than just mere competition.

Might've been a shortage of 'in-house' STEM people as opposed to foreign people getting their education in the US and then going back home. Engineering absolutely has a bigger market than liberal/fine art degrees, but the degree is a necessary but in-sufficient condition towards getting a job nowadays.

 

[VoloD]

An article on STEM prospects:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/09/15/the-stem-worker-shortage-is-real

I actually have read this article before. My only issues are that it seems to be focused on computer science related work and the real problem is that location for demand is absent.

I feel that there is a shortage of engineering workers in small distributed areas of the US and in certain specializations. Locating them is the hard part.

 

[VoloD]

You are welcome. At the same time, don't be discouraged. It may not be as easy or automatic as you had anticipated, but once you recognize that you can use that to push through and do the hard work needed. You can be rationally optimistic.

I appreciate that, and I have even consider what some of my options might be outside of engineering. I would not mind working in a separate field such as financial analyst or mathematically modeling. However, I have a feeling these positions may possibly be more competitive.

 

[VoloD]

One thing that can help is if you have worked on projects of your own, and can show prospective employers what you have done. That's one reason that I encourage students to build electronics kit projects, to start to learn how they are built, and how they work. You end up asking more detailed questions when you actually have to get something to work.

What kind of interests do you have? Are you more into the circuits/systems side of EE, or more into programming? What are your specialties so far? What kind of circuits have you built so far? Can you think of a fun project where you could put something together that shows off your knowledge? For instance, you could design and build an FPGA+uC based equalizer if you are into music. Or you could design and build some projects based on the small uC boards that are available now (like Arduino, PIC, etc.).

Would you suggest working on Project or Thesis for Graduate School. My advisor has said he has not seen much discrimination between taking either option as for finding jobs. However, I feel that if I did a project, I would have a more enriching experience and possibly have something to speak about for interviews. I am no sure if thesis work has the same impact to employers.

 

[VoloD]

Little effort when compared to an Art History major, but there is no field where they make confetti with all the superfluous job offers to throw at graduation.

In today's job market, it should be possible to secure a job prior to graduation, but it isn't a guarantee and you do have to work at it. Yes, networking is important and always will be. Yes, getting experience through an intership is a big help.

Joining student and professional organizations. Get an internship. Do a capstone project with an industry adviser.
.

I have joined student organizations before in engineering, and I don't really feel that it puts you a lot of direct contact with the right people unless you manage to work exclusively on project teams. Even with that, it still is a matter of finding someone who won't just tell you apply online. I am not trying to be a pessimist, but I am trying to be realistic about my situation. The capstone project idea is really sounding like a great option, but will I have the opportunity to do one given that this is grad school and not undergrad. I'll try asking my adviser about it.

 

[berkeman]

Would you suggest working on Project or Thesis for Graduate School. My advisor has said he has not seen much discrimination between taking either option as for finding jobs. However, I feel that if I did a project, I would have a more enriching experience and possibly have something to speak about for interviews. I am no sure if thesis work has the same impact to employers.

As a person who interviews and hires engineers (including recent school graduates), I would find the project option much more useful (depending on the project, of course).

The more impressive projects would be the ones that use the kinds of technology that are used in the workplaces where you are interviewing. For example, here at my company (an embedded systems / control networking company), I'd be looking for experience and demonstrated skill in embedded uC circuits and programming, CPLD/FPGA design and implementation, embedded system programming, etc. You can do some pretty interesting and involved projects with those kinds of things. Can you name a few?

 

[TMFKAN64]

Essentially unless
a) you had a personal affiliation with someone at a company
b) you had internship/co-op with said company "competitive process"
c) you had worked a engineering job prior to your education, so upon graduation you get the same job with better pay or transfer to another company,
the chances of you having a job will be an uphill battle despite having an BS or MS engineering.

I'm surprised that you'd think it would be otherwise.

Let's suppose you have a choice between two job candidates:

• One that has either worked for your company productively in the past or has worked with one or more trusted employees who vouch for the candidate's ability.
• One that has a nicely formatted resume and cover letter and doesn't seem to be insane after visiting your company for a day of interviews.

Who would you hire?

(Personally, I have gotten *one* job in my life by sending my resume cold to people who didn't know me at all. That is out of a total of 8-10 jobs.)

 

[symbolipoint]

About post #24,

Not quite "engineering", but my first two career-position jobs after graduating were through the send-a-resume, cold-call method. Never had any internships. The undergrad degree and some parts of courses and my personality counted. I had no personal connections (but maybe some remote ones which I did not initially know about).

 

[TMFKAN64]

my first two career-position jobs after graduating were through the send-a-resume, cold-call method.

Just out of curiosity, two jobs out of how many total?

(Other people's experiences vary, of course. And initially, you don't really *have* many options besides cold calling and sending a flood of resumes. It can and does work!)

 

[VoloD]

I know its been awhile. Any other suggestions would be of help. I have applied to way more than just 10 jobs. I really don't know what's wrong, I even have had a working engineer review my resume and give me some pointers. Sadly I think lacking internships is what hurts, but it is a catch 22, you need an intern to get into certain jobs but the interns in question are tough to get without the relevant experience quota.

 

[CalcNerd]

Are you looking for and applying to your dream jobs? That may be your problem. That job is 5-10 years away/down the road. You may need to apply for the jobs for which you are qualified by education AND experience. Maybe you should try to get on board as a technician / lab assistant and stress that you are taking the job with the expectation of getting the experience to move up. Granted you will be looking at the job as a 1-2 year stepping stone vs HR likes to hire for the position, but they also like to see ambition.
.
If you were electrical with a power background, I'd suggest a hands on job as an electrician's helper. That probably isn't suitable for your background, but you should consider a similar solution for yourself. You may end up underemployed at first, but you will end up a more and better experienced individual for it.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I agree with you VoloD, there is a glut of STEM graduates and applicants and this makes finding a job hard. Engineering is the more or most marketable of STEM degrees, but that doesn't make it easy to find work. Finding a job before graduation is almost unheard of in my circles. We get engineering grads and even applicants with masters degrees applying to be technicians and basic process engineers. We turn them down in droves.

I think an internship is a great idea and I would do whatever it takes to get one. You mentioned you had problems finding one. Does your program not set you up with an internship?

This is the exact opposite of the circles that I'm familiar with, including recent graduates in engineering programs -- every single engineering graduate I'm familiar with have been able to land a full-time job before graduation in either BS or MS programs.

It is the case that in almost all cases though, these students had internship or co-op programs (the University of Waterloo in Canada, which is one of the highly ranked schools for STEM fields in Canada, requires all engineering students to be enrolled in and participate in the co-op programs).

 

[VoloD]

Maybe you should try to get on board as a technician / lab assistant and stress that you are taking the job with the expectation of getting the experience to move up. Granted you will be looking at the job as a 1-2 year stepping stone vs HR likes to hire for the position, but they also like to see ambition.

I have no problem with doing this, and I will be sure to mention this when I speak with my advisor or more likely the job placement center. I am not above taking a technician type job. I just have difficulty finding a company willing to give an fresh grad this opportunity

 

[VoloD]

It is the case that in almost all cases though, these students had internship or co-op programs (the University of Waterloo in Canada, which is one of the highly ranked schools for STEM fields in Canada, requires all engineering students to be enrolled in and participate in the co-op programs).

That's sounds like a great deal for the students who go there. My first school has industry contacts, but there is no built in co-op or intern program. Primarily it's up to the student to find their own opportunities, despite having a career center for guidance.

The university I'm currently at now has the same issue. I don't think the universities are not sponsored, but competition can just make things a lot harder.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Students with high GPAs almost always have an easier time finding jobs than students with mediocre academic records. Grade inflation has rendered GPAs between 3.0 and 3.5 much less valuable than they used to be, especially from the mid and lower ranked schools. At the same time, job markets on the east and west coasts are much stronger in many engineering fields.

If it is too late to fix a mediocre GPA, you need to improve your letters of recommendation, and you need to broaden the geographic scope of your job searches.

 

[VoloD]

If it is too late to fix a mediocre GPA, you need to improve your letters of recommendation, and you need to broaden the geographic scope of your job searches.

I am still attending graduate school, I have two more semesters of coursework left, so my GPA can still increase (and most likely will given that I developed better study strategies since my first year.) As for demographics, I am certainly not picky about job/intern locations. I want to work after getting my Masters degree, but I am not sure who I should be talking to.