Enthelpy change at constant volume?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the change in enthalpy at constant volume for an ideal gas, particularly in the context of energy transfer and thermodynamic principles. Participants explore the relationships between internal energy, enthalpy, and heat transfer, as well as implications for computational fluid dynamics (CFD).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation of enthalpy change, suggesting that enthalpy increases by gamma times the heat added, Q, but questions how this can occur when only Q is transferred into the system.
  • Another participant asserts that energy conservation indicates the change in internal energy equals the energy input, while enthalpy is a useful quantity that does not directly represent energy.
  • A participant inquires about the energy increase in a control volume when fluid is introduced, suggesting that the relevant energy flux would be based on CvT rather than CpmT.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of accounting for flow work (PV) when introducing fluid into a control volume in CFD applications, noting that CvT represents only the "sensible" energy and does not account for other forms of energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of enthalpy changes and energy conservation, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus on the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of energy types and the specific conditions under which the relationships hold, particularly in the context of CFD and thermodynamic principles.

shuuchuu
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I can't seem to figure this out although I suspect I'm making a silly mistake.
Assuming a closed volume of ideal gas that's also thermally insulated apart from the addition of heat of Q joules.
Since it's constant volume, dT = Q / Cvm
also for internal energy U, dU = CvmdT, i.e. dU = Q , also true because dV = 0
now considering enthalpy, h = U + PV => dh = dU + PdV + VdP => dh = dU + VdP
but dP = d(rho.RT) = rho.RdT
so, dh = dU + mRdT = dU + (R/Cv)Q = dU + (gamma - 1)Q
basically dh = gamma.Q

the part I don't understand is how can enthalpy increase by gamma.Q when only Q transfers into the box. The change in enthalpy is greater than the energy going in?
 
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Energy conservation is expressed by the fact that the change in U is equal to the energy going in. H is just a useful quantity, it doesn't represent the energy.
 
Thanks for the reply.

So if you were pushing a packet of fluid into an existing volume, the actual energy increase in the volume would be CvmT, as opposed to CpmT, with the corresponding work?

Specifically it's for CFD, so if you had a control volume containing fluid at T Kelvin, and the mass flux across a face was 1kg, then the real energy flux would be CvT?

Cheers
 
"pushing" a fluid into a control volume requires flow work which is PV for an ideal gas or for an incompressible substance. This must be taken into account when you are doing CFD, unless the program does it for you.

Also note that CvT is not the "total" internal energy, just what is called "sensible" energy since its the one which gets moved around. THe object has also other energies which are neglected because they never change in most applications.
 

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