Entropy (Disorder): Increase/Decrease?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy in chemistry, specifically regarding whether certain processes increase or decrease the disorder of a system. Participants are examining examples such as sublimation of dry ice, freezing of water, and the effect of increasing pressure on nitrogen gas.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants share their interpretations of how specific processes affect disorder and question the definition of "disorder" in relation to entropy. Some express uncertainty about the system boundaries and whether the environment should be included in the analysis.

Discussion Status

The conversation is exploring different interpretations of entropy and disorder, with some participants providing insights into how heat transfer relates to changes in entropy. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in defining the system and its surroundings.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note a lack of clarity regarding the definition of the system in the examples provided, which may influence their understanding of entropy changes. There is also mention of the current chapter focus on solutions and their spontaneous dissociation related to disorder.

quantumlight
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i got this question in my chem review worksheet

State if the following increases or decreases the disorder of a system?

1) sublimation of dry ice
2) freezing of water
3) increasing pressure over Nitrogen gas that is above water

i put

1) increase
2) decrease
3) increase
 
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quantumlight said:
i got this question in my chem review worksheet

State if the following increases or decreases the disorder of a system?

1) sublimation of dry ice
2) freezing of water
3) increasing pressure over Nitrogen gas that is above water

i put

1) increase
2) decrease
3) increase
I am not sure what is meant by "disorder". Are you taking this to be synonymous with "entropy"?

It is a little unclear what the system is in these three examples. If the system includes the environment in which these things occur, then the answer is that Entropy increases in all three. For example, the freezing of water can occur in a freezer in which heat is pumped out of the water and into a hot reservoir. If the system includes the hot reservoir, entropy increases.

AM
 
According to what I understand is the definition entropy all 3 of your answers are right, but I never actually studied entropy in chemistry (no thermodynamics for me :( ). So don't be supprised If I'm wrong and hence you're wrong.

Edit:

Andrew Mason said:
For example, the freezing of water can occur in a freezer in which heat is pumped out of the water and into a hot reservoir. If the system includes the hot reservoir, entropy increases.

AM

The entropy of the whole system there would increase, but the entropy of the ice itself (which I think is what is being asked) would decrease.

(Again this is just from what I understand the definition of entropy is, so if I'm wrong could you please explain if I'm wrong).
 
Last edited:
right now the chapter I am doing is "solutions, colloids and solubility of different substances" its talking about how some solutions that doesn't have much of an energy difference still spontaneously dissociate and that is because of the disorder that accompanies such an action
 
quantumlight said:
i got this question in my chem review worksheet

State if the following increases or decreases the disorder of a system?

1) sublimation of dry ice
2) freezing of water
3) increasing pressure over Nitrogen gas that is above water

i put

1) increase
2) decrease
3) increase
If we assume that the system is just what is mentioned...ie sublimation of dry ice or freezing of water, then it is probably easiest to look at entropy the macroscopic way. The statatiscal microscopic way is the way where the disorder phrase makes more sense ussually.

All you have to do look at whether heat is being released or taken in.
1)Sublimation of dry ice takes in heat so its entropy increases.
2) Water when it freezes gives off heat, so entropy decreases.
3) When the pressure is increased we assume it adiabatic so no heat is added. Also N_2 is hardly soluble. However, the change in entropy is a statefunction. You can look at the process as two steps, isothermal compression, then adding heat. The key word is adding so yes it increases.
 
thnx why is there an at least 10 letter limit?
 
So people can't spam or something, I guess.
 

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