Entropy: Does Disorder Really Measure Order?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entropy, particularly questioning how it relates to disorder and order. Participants explore the implications of entropy as a measure of disorder through examples involving a dirty room and a clean library, both occupying the same number of microstates.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants raise questions about the relationship between entropy and order, specifically whether a higher number of microstates necessarily equates to higher entropy despite differing levels of perceived order. There is a discussion about the distinction between total entropy and entropy density.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants offering various perspectives on the nature of entropy. Some suggest that entropy should be viewed in terms of energy distribution rather than disorder alone. There is no explicit consensus, but multiple interpretations are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants question the definitions and assumptions surrounding entropy, particularly in relation to life and order. The distinction between total entropy and entropy density is noted as a point of confusion.

Jaccobtw
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Homework Statement
How is entropy a measure of disorder?
Relevant Equations
S = k ln W
Let's say you have a very dirty small room room and a giant clean library (lots of organized books) and let's say these occupy the same number of microstates. The entropy according to this equation is the same for the library and the room. But one is more ordered than the other one. How does it make sense that entropy is a measure of disorder?? I hope this question makes sense.
 
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Jaccobtw said:
Homework Statement:: How is entropy a measure of disorder?
Relevant Equations:: S = k ln W

Let's say you have a very dirty small room room and a giant clean library (lots of organized books) and let's say these occupy the same number of microstates. The entropy according to this equation is the same for the library and the room. But one is more ordered than the other one. How does it make sense that entropy is a measure of disorder?? I hope this question makes sense.
What are your thoughts so far?

Is this question for schoolwork/homework, or a more general question? Thanks.
 
"Order = tidy" is not equivalent to "order = low entropy;" this inevitably comes up/arises in "life = order" arguments, and cannot be further from the actual facts of the matter.
 
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Jaccobtw said:
Homework Statement:: How is entropy a measure of disorder?
Relevant Equations:: S = k ln W

Let's say you have a very dirty small room room and a giant clean library (lots of organized books) and let's say these occupy the same number of microstates. The entropy according to this equation is the same for the library and the room. But one is more ordered than the other one. How does it make sense that entropy is a measure of disorder?? I hope this question makes sense.
Don't confuse total entropy with entropy density.
 
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Jaccobtw said:
Homework Statement:: How is entropy a measure of disorder?
It's better to think of entropy as the spreading of energy.
 
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Bystander said:
"Order = tidy" is not equivalent to "order = low entropy;" this inevitably comes up/arises in "life = order" arguments, and cannot be further from the actual facts of the matter.
Doesn’t life have low entropy?
 
haruspex said:
Don't confuse total entropy with entropy density.
Are you saying the library has lower entropy density than the room?
 
Jaccobtw said:
Are you saying the library has lower entropy density than the room?
Yes. The library has fewer microstates per unit volume.
 
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Jaccobtw said:
Doesn’t life have low entropy?
No.
 

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