Entropy: Increasing or Decreasing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Naveen3456
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Entropy
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of entropy, specifically addressing the common misconception that increasing entropy equates to increasing disorder. Participants clarify that entropy is a measure of the number of internal states a system can have, emphasizing that not all increases in entropy correspond to disorder. The argument presented highlights that while the universe's entropy is increasing, localized systems, such as Earth, can experience decreases in entropy through energy exchanges, particularly in relation to solar radiation. The engineering perspective on entropy generation is also introduced, defining irreversible and reversible processes based on entropy generation values.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamics principles
  • Familiarity with the concept of entropy in statistical mechanics
  • Knowledge of energy transfer processes, particularly radiation
  • Basic comprehension of microstates and macrostates in physical systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of thermodynamics as outlined in "Thermodynamics: An Engineering Approach" by Cengel and Boles
  • Explore the relationship between entropy and energy transfer in systems
  • Investigate the statistical mechanics definition of entropy and its implications
  • Learn about the concept of steady-state systems and their entropy characteristics
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, engineering, and environmental science, particularly those interested in thermodynamics, entropy, and energy systems.

Naveen3456
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
Everybody says entropy of the universe is increasing.

But after the big bang, matter formed, it came together, stars and galaxies were formed, on a small planet called Earth atoms/molecules came together to form unicellular organisms and then higher life. Our brains are organizing even more and more as our intelligence level is increasing.

Isn't this order?
 
Science news on Phys.org
:/
Get yourself together man.
Are all these irreversible processes?
 
Naveen3456 said:
Everybody says entropy of the universe is increasing.

But after the big bang, matter formed, it came together, stars and galaxies were formed, on a small planet called Earth atoms/molecules came together to form unicellular organisms and then higher life. Our brains are organizing even more and more as our intelligence level is increasing.

Isn't this order?

You're letting yourself be misled by the pop-sci description of entropy as "disorder".

Entropy is a measure of the number of internal states that a system can have. Not all increases in entropy correspond to our intuitive notion of "increasing disorder".
 
What Nugatory said. One can associate some kind of "disorder" to entropy, but this view is very weak in describing the state of the system. Entropy is characterized by the multiplicity, i.e. the number of microstates associated with a macrostate.

As for life forming on earth, the entropy of Earth does not need to increase. A simple argument is as follows:
most of the radiation Earth receives from the sun is in the green and the Earth emits in the infrared. Since the Earth is in steady state, energy in = energy out. Thus for every photon Earth receives, it emits two photons (the energy of an infrared photon is about half of the energy of a green photon). Two photons have a higher multiplicity than a single photon. Thus the change in entropy does not need to be greater than zero.
 
From the engineering point of view (see the book Thermodynamics; An engineering approach by Cengel and Boles) "entropy generation can be used as a quantitative measure of irreversibilities associated with a process".
Sgen > 0 --> irreversible process
Sgen = 0 --> reversible process
Sgen < 0 --> impossible process
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 57 ·
2
Replies
57
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
594
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
12K