The discussion centers on the implications of EPR experiments and Bell's theorem for the validity of Special Relativity Theory (STR) and the concept of absolute simultaneity. Participants explore the relationship between non-locality in quantum mechanics and the existence of a preferred reference frame, debating the interpretations of these phenomena within the frameworks of Lorentzian relativity and Einsteinian STR.
Participants express competing views on the implications of EPR experiments for STR, with no consensus reached on the existence of a preferred frame or the validity of Einstein's theories. The discussion remains unresolved, with ongoing debate about the interpretations of non-locality and its consequences.
Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding of quantum mechanics and relativity, including unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on specific interpretations of experimental results. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of simultaneity and the implications of non-locality.
I suppose the round trip is superfluous. The instant bomb is another kind of paradoxical thing ( it is paradoxical because it both does, and does not explode ).zenith8 said:No, come on. Most of your comments have been very sensible but you're really off-beam here.
In a real bomb the electrons will take some nanoseconds to traverse the relevant wires to explode the bomb.
If what you are suggesting is true then it is exactly the same paradox when you only have one single device with the red button attached to the detonator. What you're saying is that in your magic bomb it explodes instantaneously as soon as someone presses the button therefore they couldn't possible have pressed it in the first place (which is not true, anyway).
There is no additional content to this though experiment if the signal from the red button takes an instantaneous round trip to the other side of the universe and back, before passing down the wires to the detonator, even if the time from button press to explosion could be shrunk to zero.
Zenith
The kinematic time operator can be naturally defined in relativistic and nonrelativistic quantum mechanics (QM) by treating time on an equal footing with space. The spacetime-position operator acts in the Hilbert space of functions of space and time. Dynamics, however, makes eigenstates of the time operator unphysical. This poses a problem for the standard interpretation of QM and reinforces the role of alternative interpretations such as the Bohmian one. The Bohmian interpretation, despite of being nonlocal in accordance with the Bell theorem, is shown to be relativistic covariant.
Mentz114 said:I suppose the round trip is superfluous. The instant bomb is another kind of paradoxical thing ( it is paradoxical because it both does, and does not explode ).
We're talking about two different bombs. As you've pointed out this is not relevant to the issue so let's forget the instant bomb and I'll stop trying to find logical or causal fallacies ( I'm not saying they don't exist). The definition of locality is 'an event cannot happen at the same time as its cause if they are spatially separated'. Locality - as in space.zenith8 said:Look, I'm sorry - it really is not paradoxical.
You press the red button. The bomb explodes immediately. You die. End of story.
I think you're saying - in effect - that it is not possible for an effect to happen at the same instant as its cause?
Isn't that the definition of locality?
Zenith