Epsilon- N Proof a Sequence Diverges

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the convergence or divergence of two sequences: \( x_n = \frac{n^2 - n}{n} \) and \( x_n = \frac{(-1)^n + 1}{n} \). Participants explore the definitions and implications of convergence and divergence using epsilon-delta arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the definitions of convergence and divergence, with some attempting to apply epsilon arguments to prove divergence. Questions arise about the choice of limits and the behavior of sequences as \( n \) increases.

Discussion Status

Some participants express confusion about executing proofs of divergence, while others provide clarifications and examples to illustrate the concepts. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the sequences' behavior as \( n \) increases, with no explicit consensus reached on the final conclusions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the difficulty in proving divergence compared to convergence, and there is mention of the need for concrete examples to understand the behavior of the sequences better.

B3NR4Y
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Homework Statement


1. Let ##x_n = \frac{n^2 - n}{n} ## does ##x_n## converge or diverge?
2. Let ##x_n = \frac{(-1)^n +1}{n} ## does ##x_n## converge or diverge

Homework Equations


A sequence converges if ##\forall \epsilon > 0##, ##\exists N \in \mathbb{N} ## such that ##n\geq N ## implies ## | x_n - L | < \epsilon ##
A sequence diverges if ##\exists \epsilon_{0} > 0##, ##\forall N \in \mathbb{N}##, ##\exists n_{0} \geq N ## such that ##|x_{n_{0}} - L | > \epsilon_{0} ##

The Attempt at a Solution


For one, I noticed that ##x_n = n-1 ## which obviously diverges. But as my teacher says, I got to prove it. So I take ##\epsilon_0 = \frac{1}{2}, \, \, L \in \mathbb{R}, \, \, n \geq N, \, \, N \in \mathbb{N} ##
$$
1.) \, \, | (N - 1) - L | < \frac{1}{2}, \, \, \, \, \, \, \, \, |((N+1)-1) - L | = |N-L| <\frac{1}{2}
$$

I can apply the triangle inequality to find that ##|N-1-L| - |N-1| \le 1 ##, but I can see from 1.) that ## |N-1-L| - |N-L| < 0 ## Therefore ##x_n## diverges.

Obviously I wouldn't be posting here if that satisfied me, it doesn't. ##|N-1-L| - |N-L|=(-\infty, \, 0) ## would satisfy both of those.

2.) I noticed that ##x_n = \frac{(-1)^n +1}{n} > \frac{(-1)^n}{n} ## so all I should have to do is prove ##b_n = \frac{(-1)^n}{n} ## diverges and that should be sufficient. So if we take ##\epsilon_{0} = \frac{1}{2}, \, \, L = 1 \, \, n\geq N ##, ##|b_{n} - 1| > \epsilon ##, ##b_n = 1## when n is even and ##b_n = -1## when n is odd, therefore ##|-1 -1| = |-2| = 2 > \epsilon## which proves ##b_n## is divergent therefore proving ##x_n## is divergent..

This doesn't satisfy my either, I understanding proving convergence just fine but for some reason I find proving divergence harder.
 
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Well, if a sequence diverges, then there will be some ## \epsilon ## such that, no matter how big an ## N ## you pick, ## n \geq N ## will not make ## |x_n - x | < \epsilon ##. That is, we will have ## |x_n - x| \geq \epsilon ## no matter how big ## n ## gets. Does phrasing it that way help clarify things?
 
Not particularly, I understand what the symbols mean, but actually executing a proof of divergence trips me up. I've started over on the first one, but choosing the epsilon and then proving that no matter what, ##|x_n - L| > \epsilon ##, confuses me.
 
For your first series, you noticed that ## x_n = n - 1 ##. So the first few terms of the series (assuming we start at ## n = 1 ##) are 0, 1, 2, etc. Suppose ## \epsilon ## is, say, 1/2. For the sequence to converge to x, we would need all the ## x_n ## for big enough ## n ## to make | x_n - x | < 1/2. We have the opposite situation - if you make ## n ## big enough, | x_n - x | = | n - 1 - x | will get bigger than any finite number you choose!
 
Geofleur said:
For your first series, you noticed that ## x_n = n - 1 ##. So the first few terms of the series (assuming we start at ## n = 1 ##) are 0, 1, 2, etc. Suppose ## \epsilon ## is, say, 1/2. For the sequence to converge to x, we would need all the ## x_n ## for big enough ## n ## to make | x_n - x | < 1/2. We have the opposite situation - if you make ## n ## big enough, | x_n - x | = | n - 1 - x | will get bigger than any finite number you choose!
Oh! Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

For the second one, if we choose epsilon to equal 1

$$
|\frac{(-1)^{n} +1}{n} - L| < 1
$$
If n is odd, ## \frac{L}{n} < 1 ##, which isn't necessarily true for all n. L has to be chosen so that ##\frac{1}{L} > \frac{1}{n}##, but L can't be conditioned by n, it has to be fixed. So it's not looking good for ##x_n##

If n is even, ## \frac{|Ln-2|}{n} < 1##, which isn't true, since Ln - 2 ≥ n, so the fraction ## \frac{|Ln-2|}{n}\geq 1## Therefore ##x_n## diverges.
 
Write down a bunch of terms of the sequence. Does it look like they are approaching a definite number?
 
For the second one, no, it's either 0 or 1/n ∀n

But sadly just writing terms isn't sufficient for my professor.
 
What happens to 2/n when n gets bigger and bigger?
 
Geofleur said:
What happens to 2/n when n gets bigger and bigger?
It also goes to zero, oops. So it converges and I have to prove that.
 
  • #10
You can't prove something that is false, after all :-) That's why it's good to actually write some concrete numbers and get a feel first.
 
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  • #11
Thank you so much! I understand it better now, for sure. :)
 

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