Equation to find the reduction in velocity during condensation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reduction in velocity of vapor during the condensation process. Participants explore the relationship between temperature, kinetic energy, and the statistical behavior of molecules in both vapor and liquid phases, seeking an equation to quantify the velocity change during condensation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the velocity of vapor decreases as it condenses, requesting an equation to quantify this change.
  • Another participant explains that the interpretation of "velocity of a vapor" is complex, involving statistical distributions of kinetic energy among molecules in both vapor and liquid phases.
  • It is suggested that condensation occurs when a molecule's kinetic energy falls below the threshold needed to remain in the vapor phase, leading to a shift in populations of molecules.
  • Participants discuss the average kinetic energy of molecules in both phases and how it relates to temperature differences during condensation.
  • A specific case is presented where steam at 600 m/s and 4 kPa undergoes condensation at a temperature of 304 K, prompting a request for an equation to determine the new velocity post-condensation.
  • One participant argues that if the temperature remains unchanged, there should be no change in average kinetic energy or velocity, while another counters that condensation implies a change in kinetic energy due to the phase transition.
  • Further discussion highlights that individual molecules may oscillate between phases, maintaining the same average kinetic energy as the population, despite changes in the bulk properties of the fluid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the velocity change can be determined without a change in temperature. Some assert that there is no change in kinetic energy or velocity if temperature is constant, while others argue that condensation inherently alters kinetic energy dynamics, leading to unresolved disagreement.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects varying interpretations of kinetic energy and velocity in the context of phase changes, with participants highlighting the complexity of statistical behaviors in mixed populations of vapor and liquid.

ASR
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Velocity of any flowing vapour reduces as it condenses. Can any of you please suggest the equation to find the reduction in velocity of a vapour as it condense. Thanks in advance.
 
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It will depend on how you interpret “velocity of a vapour”. If temperature is thought of as being the statistical average kinetic energy of a population of molecules, then the statistical velocity distribution during condensation will include molecules in both the vapour and the liquid phase.

Condensation of an individual molecule will occur when it's kinetic energy falls below that needed to break the bonds to other molecules within the same liquid droplet.

The problem here is that we have two statistical populations of molecules. As energy is removed from the system, members of the vapour population are being selectively removed to the condensate population. That is a complex statistical equilibrium problem.

It could be seen that during the process of condensation there are two populations of molecules. In one, the liquid, are the majority of low KE molecules. In the other, the vapour, are the majority of the high KE molecules. But, energy is being shared between all molecules, in all phases, all of the time. Some are evaporating again from the condensate, while others are again condensing and providing energy to evaporate others. On average, individual condensed molecules will be traveling at slightly lower velocities than free molecules, but the density of the liquid will be greater and the molecules mean free path will be less.

In a volume away from any walls, the temperature difference between a condensation droplet and the surrounding vapour will be very small. From that you can estimate the average KE of a molecule in the liquid and in the vapour phase. Knowing the molecular weight makes it possible to calculate the average velocity drop occurring on condensation.

When condensation occurs onto a cold surface there will be a significant difference between vapour and condensate temperature. That will have a higher average KE difference and so a higher velocity difference. So it also depends on how you extract the energy from the system to cause the condensation.
 
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That's fine. I understood the physics behind it. But I am in need of an equation which would provide me the velocity of the fluid after condensation. In my case, velocity of steam is 600 m/s , 4kPa (Ts = 303 K) and it undergoes condensation process. I am wondering what will happen to the velocity after condensation, of course it will decrease but I need how much it will decrease.
Thanks for your kind replay.
 
What is the temperature immediately after condensation?
 
Temperature after condensation is 304 K
 
Then there is no change in temperature, so there is no change in average kinetic energy and no change in velocity.
 
but the vapour is condensed , therefore there will be change in kinetic energy of molecules
 
ASR said:
but the vapour is condensed , therefore there will be change in kinetic energy of molecules
Consider a mix of vapour and condensate at a fixed temperature. If you follow one molecule it will jump back and forth between phases, but over time it will have the same average KE as the population.

When two molecules travel together there is no difference in their individual KE than when they are traveling alone.

As the number of molecules in a droplet increases the envelope of the droplet travels slower but the molecules statistically travel within the droplet at the same average velocity determined by the temperature.
 
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