Escape velocity and kinetic energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of escape velocity, kinetic energy, and potential energy, particularly in the context of objects in motion and gravitational fields. Participants explore the relationships between these forms of energy, their definitions, and implications in various scenarios, including dropping objects and orbital mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when all potential energy is converted to kinetic energy, the object is moving at escape velocity, while others argue this is incorrect, suggesting it relates more to impact velocity.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of constant changes in potential and kinetic energy, with some suggesting that this would not apply to an object in orbit or at rest on the ground.
  • One participant notes that an object at escape velocity has kinetic energy equivalent to the potential energy difference between its position and infinity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that kinetic and potential energy are reference frame dependent, with the surface of the Earth often chosen as the reference point.
  • There is a mention of the potential energy of an object losing energy as it moves towards the center of the Earth, raising questions about how escape velocity calculations are typically framed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the interpretations of the statements regarding escape velocity and energy conversion, with multiple competing views presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific assumptions about reference frames and energy definitions, which remain unresolved. The discussion also highlights the complexity of energy transformations in gravitational fields.

nibbel11
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is it right to say, "when all the potential energy is converted in kinetic energy the object is moving at the escapevelocity.
and "when the change in potential energy and kinetic energy is constant at the same time it is laying still on the ground or in a perfect circulair orbit.
and the last one "if the planet is rotating faster than the escape velocity you are going to get flung of the planet"
are these statements right?
 
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nibbel11 said:
is it right to say, "when all the potential energy is converted in kinetic energy the object is moving at the escapevelocity.
No. That's impact velocity. It varies with the altitude you drop something from.
and "when the change in potential energy and kinetic energy is constant at the same time it is laying still on the ground or in a perfect circulair orbit.
That's a grammatically cumbersome sentence. But "change...is constant" implies to me a continuous addition of energy. So no, that wouldn't be an orbit or sitting still on the ground. Maybe a rocket could have a continuously increasing energy as it is launched.

An orbit or sitting on the ground has zero change in total mechanical energy, or rather, that the total energy is constant.

Of course, so does an object plunging to Earth...
and the last one "if the planet is rotating faster than the escape velocity you are going to get flung of the planet"
are these statements right?
That one is true.
 
nibbel11 said:
is it right to say, "when all the potential energy is converted in kinetic energy the object is moving at the escapevelocity.
No. Russ beat me to it ... I'll just add:
Say I drop a stone from 1m ... just before it hits the ground, it is not moving at escape velocity.
Technically it has not converted all it's potential energy either ... that would happen at the center of the Earth perhaps. In that case, it will have exactly enough kinetic energy to rise to 1m height ... still not escape velocity.

An object at escape velocity has the same kinetic energy as the potential energy difference between where it is and infinity.
An object falling from infinity, with no initial velocity, converting all potential energy to kinetic, the the impact velocity has the same magnitude and opposite direction to the escape velocity at the impact site.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Say I drop a stone from 1m ... just before it hits the ground, it is not moving at escape velocity.
Technically it has not converted all it's potential energy either ... that would happen at the center of the Earth perhaps.
Kinetic and potential energy are reference frame dependent and a spot on the surface of the Earth is often chosen as the origin of the reference frame.
 
Even so: the stone still loses potential energy on it's way to the centre - so, on the surface, I can argue it still has potential energy to lose even though the "tank level" reads zero, that's just a number chalked on the side of the tank. I can probably get more wiggle room in there if I really tried but it's 23:16 here and I'm not that committed.

Are escape velocity calculations are usually done by taking a spot on the surface as zero?
 

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