Example of f integrable but |f| not integrable

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding examples of functions that are integrable on the interval (0,1] but whose absolute values are not integrable. Participants explore various functions and their properties, particularly focusing on the limits of integrals and convergence issues.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines a function f using a piecewise approach based on the alternating harmonic series, suggesting it might serve as an example.
  • Another participant proposes f(x) = sin(1/x)/x as a candidate, noting its properties on the interval [0,1].
  • There is a claim regarding the convergence of the integral of sin(x)/x over the interval [0,∞] and the divergence of the integral of its absolute value.
  • Some participants clarify that for bounded functions on [0,1], if f is integrable, then |f| is also integrable, which may limit the search for suitable examples.
  • One participant presents a solution involving a harmonic series, detailing the convergence of the integral as c approaches 0.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the convergence of the integral of sin(1/x)/x, leading to a deeper exploration of its properties.
  • There are corrections and refinements regarding the convergence of integrals and the behavior of sin(1/x)/x, with participants questioning their earlier assumptions.
  • One participant reflects on the complexity of the function sin(1/x)/x and its integration, suggesting it may not be trivial to handle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a specific example of a function that meets the criteria outlined. Multiple competing views and examples are presented, with ongoing debate about their validity and properties.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that any function meeting the criteria should not be bounded on [0,1], and there are unresolved questions regarding the convergence of certain integrals and the implications of absolute convergence.

SiddharthM
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Define F(x) = integral (from x to 1) f

take limF(x) as x goes to 0.

I would like to give an example of a function on (0,1] so that the above limit exists but if we replace f with |f| the limit does not exist.

So I came up with f= [(2^n)/(n)](-1)^(n+1) for x in (1/(2^n),1/[2^(n-1)]] (which geometrically) at these endpoints gives us the alternating harmonic series, that is the limit above with this function is the limit of the alternating harmonic series.

Is there a simpler example?
 
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f(x)=sin(1/x)/x.
 
[tex]\int^{\infty}_0 \frac{ \sin x}{x} dx = \frac{\pi}{2}[/tex]

[tex]\int^{\infty}_0 |\frac{ \sin x}{x}| dx = \infty[/tex]
 
i'm looking for examples on the domain [0,1].
 
Eighty said:
f(x)=sin(1/x)/x.
This one works on [0,1] (it's not Lebesgue integrable there IIRC).
 
If f is a bounded function on [0,1] which is integrable then |f| is integrable on [0,1]. It is a simple theorem to prove.
 
Kummer said:
If f is a bounded function on [0,1] which is integrable then |f| is integrable on [0,1]. It is a simple theorem to prove.
While this is true, it's not really what the OP asked for. On the other hand, it does tell us that if we are going to find such a function f, it's not going to be (properly) Riemann integrable on [0,1].
 
Kummer said:
If f is a bounded function on [0,1] which is integrable then |f| is integrable on [0,1]. It is a simple theorem to prove.

I'm aware of this, but this isn't my question. I'm asking for a function so that f is integrable for every c>0 on [c,1] and with the following properties:

(1) the limit of the integrals as c goes to zero exists.
(2) the same limit as (1) replaced with f with |f| does NOT exist.

Although I did come up with one, I'm asking for more, possibly simpler, ones.

The theorem you mentioned tells us that any such function should NOT be bounded on [0,1].
 
My solution, perhaps not the best.

This is problem 7 in Rudin, Chapter 6. I used a harmonic series:
[tex]f(x) = (n+1)(-1)^{n+1},\ x \in (\frac{1}{n+1},\frac{1}{n}],\ n = 1,2,...[/tex]. Then [tex]\int_{\frac{1}{n+1}}^{\frac{1}{n}} f(x) dx = \frac{(-1)^{n+1}}{n}[/tex]. The integral [tex]\int_{c}^{1} f(x) dx[/tex] converges to [tex]\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{(-1)^{n+1}}{n}[/tex] as [tex]c \rightarrow 0[/tex]. But it's not absolutely convergent.
 
  • #10
About sin(1/x)/x

[tex]\int_{0}^{1}\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x}dx[/tex] does not appear to me to converge. Set [tex]\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x} = x\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x^2}[/tex], and integrate by parts, with [tex]G(x)=x, \ f(x) = -sin(u(x))u'(x) = \frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x^2}[/tex], then [tex]\int_{e}^{1}x\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x^2}dx = 1 \cdot cos(\frac{1}{1}) - e \cdot cos(\frac{1}{e}) - \int_{e}^{1}cos(\frac{1}{x})dx[/tex] does not converge as [tex]e \rightarrow 0+[/tex]. Using the same integration by parts, you can show [tex]\int_{0}^{1}\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{\sqrt{x}}dx[/tex] does converge, but it also converges absolutley, since [tex]\int_{0}^{1}\frac{1}{\sqrt{x}}dx[/tex] also converges.
 
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  • #11
OK I think I'm wrong there... [tex]\int_{e}^{1}cos(\frac{1}{x})dx[/tex] must indeed converge as [tex]e \rightarrow 0[/tex], if the identity [tex]\int_{e}^{1}\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x}dx = \int_{1}^{\frac{1}{e}}\frac{sin(u)}{u}du[/tex] holds. Then I suppose that's an easier to construct example of an integral that is convergent but not absolutely convergent.
 
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  • #12
I think I've done enough for now...

What the hell was I thinking?!? Of course the integral of cos(1/x) converges on [0,1] because it's a bounded function that's only discontinuous at one point!

However, the problem with sin(1/x)/x is that doesn't seem like a trivial function to deal with. The limit is in the residue integration section of complex analysis books. But nonetheless I went ahead and calculated that it does not converge absolutely. It was laborous.

The approach I began above was mistaken but in retrospect yields that [tex]\int_{0}^{1}\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x}dx = cos(1) - \int_{0}^{1}cos(\frac{1}{x})dx[/tex]. In particular, it converges.

Using the integration of parts for even n, [tex]\int_{\frac{1}{n\pi}}^{\frac{1}{(n-1)\pi}}|\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x}|dx \geq \frac{1}{n\pi} + \frac{1}{(n-1)\pi} - \frac{1}{n^2\pi^2}}[/tex], hence [tex]\sum_{n}\int_{\frac{1}{n\pi}}^{\frac{1}{(n-1)\pi}}|\frac{sin(\frac{1}{x})}{x}|dx \geq \sum_{even \ n}\frac{1}{n\pi} + \frac{1}{(n-1)\pi} - \frac{1}{n^2\pi^2}} = +\infty[/tex]
 
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  • #13
rudinreader: your solution is similar to mine in that it converges to the alternating harmonic series although i think I like yours better! check out my post on uniform convergence it is in regards to problem 4 chapter 7.
 

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