Expansion of 3-D positively curved space

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion of a 3-D positively curved space, focusing on the implications of a scale factor on the metric and the geometry of the space. Participants explore the mathematical representation of this expansion and its effects on the radial and angular components of the metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the change in the radial component due to expansion can be represented as a(t)dr and questions whether the angular component should be represented as Sk(r')dθ and Sk(r')sinθdΦ, suggesting that the expansion is incorporated in Sk(r').
  • Another participant challenges this view, stating that the expansion is not incorporated in Sk(r) and emphasizes the distinction between the coordinate r and the radius of curvature R.
  • A further contribution explains that in a positively curved space, the radius of spheres becomes Rsin(r/R) instead of r, and questions whether the scale factor affects the elementary length on the surface of the sphere during expansion.
  • One participant critiques the previous reasoning, asserting that r is a coordinate fixed for a comoving observer and discusses the standard Robertson-Walker (RW) metric, suggesting a transformation to a new coordinate r' that incorporates the scale factor.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the radius of curvature R in the context of 3-D positively curved space and asks for a method to visualize this mathematically, drawing parallels to the 2-D case.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the incorporation of the scale factor in the metric and the interpretation of coordinates. There is no consensus on the correct approach to modeling the expansion or the implications for the geometry of the space.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the relationship between coordinates and curvature, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of the scale factor and the implications for the metric. The discussion includes various interpretations of the geometry involved.

Apashanka
Messages
427
Reaction score
15
The metric of a 3-D positively curved space is dr2+ Sk(r)2(dθ2+sin2θdΦ2).
Now if this space expands with a scale factor a(t) from r to r'.
Whether the change in the radial component be a(t)dr and angular component be Sk(r')dθ and Sk(r')sinθdΦ since the change due to expansion is already incorporated in Sk(r')??
 
Space news on Phys.org
Apashanka said:
since thethe cha due to expansion is already incorporated in Sk(r')??
It is not incorporated in ##S_k(r)##.
 
Orodruin said:
It is not incorporated in ##S_k(r)##.
If we imagine 3-D euclidean space consists of infinite no. of concentric spheres,after given positive curvature the radius of the spheres become Rsin(r/R)=Sk(r),as opposed to r for flat 3-D space (where R is radius of curvature) where r is the distance from the origin .

Now if this sphere of radius Sk(r) expands from r to r' having scale factor a(t) in time t.
Then the elementary length on the surface of sphere will change only due to the factor that it's radius got changed from Sk(r) to Sk(r') in time t,scale factor effect will not be on this.
Am I right??
 
Last edited:
Apashanka said:
Now if this sphere of radius Sk(r) expands from r to r' having scale factor a(t) in time t.
Sorry, but this makes no sense. ##r## is a coordinate, it is ##R## that is the radius of curvature. Either way, the standard RW coordinates have a fixed ##R## and ##r## is also fixed for a comoving observer. The spatial part of the RW metric is of the form
$$
d\Sigma^2 = a(t)^2 [dr^2 + S_k(r)^2 d\Omega^2].
$$
Now, you could introduce a new coordinate ##r' = a(t) r## such that the spatial part of the RW metric takes the form
$$
d\Sigma^2 = dr'^2 + [a(t) S_k(r)]^2 d\Omega^2 = dr'^2 + \tilde S_k(r',t)^2 d\Omega^2,
$$
where
$$
\tilde S_k(r',t) = a(t) S_k(r) = a(t) R \sin\left(\frac{r'}{a(t) R}\right) = R(t) \sin(r'/R(t))
$$
and ##R(t) = a(t) R##. However, your ##r'## will then no longer be a comoving coordinate and you will introduce cross terms between the spatial coordinate ##r'## and the time coordinate ##t## in the metric. This is highly non-recommended.
 
Orodruin said:
r is also fixed for a comoving observer.
Sir for the 2-D positively curved plane the radius of the circles become Rsin(r/R) instead of r ,at a distance r from the origin where R is the radius of curvature or radius of the 2-sphere and it can be drawn geometrically.
Similarly for 3-D positively curved space the radius of the spheres become Rsin(r/R) instead of r, at a distance r from the origin.
Sir for the 2-D case the R is the radius of 2-Sphere and can be visualised but sir for 3-D case what R is actually here??is there any method to visualise this mathematically??
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
7K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
13K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
6K