Expansion of the Universe and Time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of the expansion of the universe, the relationship between space and time, and the implications of the Big Bang on these dimensions. Participants explore theoretical aspects, including the nature of time at the moment of the Big Bang and how it relates to the expansion of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the universe is expanding, both space and time must be expanding, questioning the linear experience of time.
  • Another participant counters that only the spatial universe is expanding, citing a mathematical equation that describes this expansion without affecting the temporal component.
  • A different participant reflects on the nature of the Big Bang, expressing confusion about the existence of time and space at that moment and whether the universe itself was expanding.
  • One reply challenges the self-consistency of discussing an "instant" of the Big Bang when time and space were not defined, while also noting that time, space, and the universe came into being simultaneously.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify their understanding, asserting that once the Big Bang occurred, time and space could be discussed meaningfully.
  • One participant speculates on the nature of time at the moment of the singularity, suggesting that while time may have started rolling after that moment, space underwent complex changes, including inflation and accelerated expansion.
  • There is a mention of the relativistic effects on the perception of time, with a belief that "absolute time" has consistently progressed at a rate of one second per second.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between space and time in the context of the universe's expansion and the nature of time at the moment of the Big Bang. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexities involved in discussing the Big Bang and the nature of time and space, including the limitations of current understanding and the potential need for quantum gravity theories to address these concepts meaningfully.

agreen
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My standard disclaimer (this is my second post now): "I'm not a physicist... I'm not a mathematician... I'm not even in school, I'm just a computer guy who watches the Science channel a lot :) So don't yell at me... be gentle :)"

From the zillions of TV shows I've watched about the subject in an attempt to gain an increasing understand of the concepts, as I understand it - space and time are interwoven, such that if the Universe is expanding, that means that both space and time are expanding. Is that why we seemingly experience events in a linear "forward" time - because both space AND time are expanding? (forgive my limited vocabulary for trying to explain what I'm thinking :)
 
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No. What is expanding is the spatial universe, not the temporal component. I know you're not a physicist or mathematician, but hopefully you know enough algebra to note be scared by a simple equation:
[tex]ds^2=-dt^2+a(t)^2(dx^2+dy^2+dz^2)[/tex]

This is the equation which describes the expansion of the universe (a flat universe, mind you). You'll recognize the x^2+y^2+z^2, the distance between two points in space (think pythagorean theorem). Now, the a(t)^2 factor out in front is what's called the scale factor. When that factor increases, we say the universe is expanding (the distance between the points is increasing). Similarly, if it were decreasing, the universe is contracting. Now it is the simplest thing to note that such a factor does not appear in front of the time portion of the equation -- i.e. time is unaffected.
 
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Hmmm... I thought that at the instant of the Big Bang, there was no time and space, just the "singularity", and that when the Big Bang occurred and progressed, it wasn't just matter expanding into empty space, but the Universe itself was expanding (time and space included)? Or am I incorrect in understanding this part?
 
agreen said:
Hmmm... I thought that at the instant of the Big Bang, there was no time and space, just the "singularity"

I hope you realize that this sentence is not even self-consistent. There was no time and space implies you cannot even talk about the "instant" of the big bang, since there is no concept of time.

It is true though that in standard interpretation there is no empty space to expand into, but time, space, and the universe itself came into being all simultaneously. I really don't want to get into this since it's somewhat silly, given that we know quantum corrections are important here so some quantum gravity theory of cosmology is necessary to speak meaningfully about the universe before a Planck time.

Although, I don't see how this relates to your original question or how I answered it...
 
Well, remember I'm just a lay person hoping that your imparted wisdom will make me smarter :) My second question was just an attempt to help me better understand your answer; I was trying to get a better grip on the concepts that made me ask the question in the first place.

Technically, I CAN talk about the "instant of the Big Bang" because, once it started, there would then be time and space to speak of, right? :)

Regardless, thanks for your help :)
 
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I think that although it's hypothetical, at best, to talk about space-time at t=0 (the moment of the singularity) right after that, time just started rolling along. Space was doing some weird stuff, though, then and since then, inflating and then expanding and now expanding at an accelerated rate.

Time (or maybe I should say "perception of time") gets weird under relativistic effects, but "absolute time" (defined as relative to an observer) has, I believe, always just gone along at the rate of 1 second per second (if you see what I mean). We consider the U to be ~14B years old in absolute time.
 

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