Expectation Value: My Understanding vs. Prof.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of expectation values in quantum mechanics, specifically comparing two formulations: one for normalized states and another for general states in Hilbert space. Participants explore the implications of these formulations and their derivations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the expectation value of an observable H for a state |a> is given by , while their professor used = /, leading to confusion.
  • Another participant notes that the first formula assumes a normalized vector, whereas the second does not.
  • A participant questions how to derive the second equation.
  • One participant raises a concern about the relevance of discussing expectation values for states that are not normalized, questioning their physical significance.
  • Another participant introduces the variation principle in quantum mechanics, explaining that the expectation value of any Hermitian operator with respect to any vector in Hilbert space is greater than the smallest eigenvalue of that operator, and outlines conditions for using the two equations based on normalization.
  • There is a repeated inquiry about deriving the second equation, with a suggestion that the first equation can be derived from the second, and a rationale is provided regarding the expectation value of the identity operator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of using normalized versus non-normalized states in calculating expectation values. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the derivation and significance of the second equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of normalization in the context of expectation values, but there are unresolved questions about the derivation of the second equation and the physical relevance of non-normalized states.

dEdt
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My understanding was that the expectation value of an observable H for a state |a> is just <a|H|a>. But in a homework problem, my prof. used <H> = <a|H|a>/<a|a>. I'm a little confused by the discrepancy, why the discrepancy?
 
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The first formula assumes a ray(a vector of norm 1). The second one does not.
 
How do you derive the second equation then?
 
And what's the point of discussing the expectation value of a state if its norm isn't 1 (ie isn't physical)?
 
Are you dealing with variation principle (method) of QM ?
Variation Principle : the expectation value of any hermitain operator w.r.t. any vector in hilbert space is larger than the smallest eigenvalue of that hermitain operator.
how given any hermitain operator H, chossing any state |a> will give the expectation value of H if (1) if |a> normalized, use the first equation
(2) if |a> is not normalized or don't know if it is normalized ( that's the general vector in hilbert space. then use the second equation.
 
dEdt said:
How do you derive the second equation then?

You derive the first equation from the second. Why the second? Because the expectation value of the identity operator H=I (eigenvalue 1 and every nonzero vector is an eigenvector) should be 1.
 

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