Experimental Demonstration of the Raman - Nath Effect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around designing an experiment to demonstrate the Raman-Nath effect, focusing on the challenges faced due to limited resources. Participants explore various methods to generate sound waves necessary for the experiment, which involves creating fluctuations in the density of a liquid to diffract a laser beam.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a plan to use a resonance box and a tuning fork to create sound waves but faces resource limitations.
  • Another participant suggests using an electric guitar string with an amplifier to generate sound, but the original poster lacks access to a guitar and knowledge of playing it.
  • A participant mentions an app that can generate sound frequencies, which the original poster considers using as an alternative.
  • Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of using human-audible sound waves, with one participant arguing that higher frequencies (around 10 MHz) are necessary for meaningful results.
  • Another participant shares their past experience with the Raman-Nath effect, mentioning the use of piezoelectric transducers and suggesting that they are a potential solution, though they may not be inexpensive.
  • One participant expresses frustration about the cost of commercial devices and considers postponing the experiment until entering college.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of using various sound generation methods, with some advocating for higher frequency sound waves while others explore alternative, lower-cost solutions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to successfully demonstrate the Raman-Nath effect given the constraints.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the availability of equipment and the necessity of specific sound frequencies for effective diffraction patterns. There is also a mention of unresolved mathematical considerations regarding diffraction angles and grating spacing.

Wrichik Basu
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I want to design an experiment to demonstrate Raman - Nath effect.

Due to limited resources at my hand (my school doesn't have too much resources), my condition is somewhat like Raman, and hence I want to do the original experiment that Raman and Nath conducted in IISc Bangalore back in the late 1900s.

The diagram of the experiment is this:

Raman - Nath effect.png


As you can see, laser from the left will go through the liquid kept in the cylinder. There will be a sound source below the cylinder, which will create sound of same frequency but different amplitudes, so as to create fluctuations in the density of the liquid, which will affect the optical density, and thereby diffract the incoming beam, which will create a diffraction pattern on the screen.

I have all the things mentioned above except the sound source. I had first decided to use a resonance box, so that I can make a resonance by vibrating a tuning fork of the same frequency, and holding it near the box. With this system, I could even vary the amplitude of the wave as I want by hitting the fork hard or soft. But i found that my school doesn't have the resonance box.

I searched on the net to see if I could buy one, but the only one on Amazon is a bit expensive (about $80, which amounts to 5120 INR).

Does anyone have an idea that could help me out of this situation? This is the only problem that I am facing.
 

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Wrichik Basu said:
I want to design an experiment to demonstrate Raman - Nath effect.

Due to limited resources at my hand (my school doesn't have too much resources), my condition is somewhat like Raman, and hence I want to do the original experiment that Raman and Nath conducted in IISc Bangalore back in the late 1900s.

The diagram of the experiment is this:

View attachment 215972

As you can see, laser from the left will go through the liquid kept in the cylinder. There will be a sound source below the cylinder, which will create sound of same frequency but different amplitudes, so as to create fluctuations in the density of the liquid, which will affect the optical density, and thereby diffract the incoming beam, which will create a diffraction pattern on the screen.

I have all the things mentioned above except the sound source. I had first decided to use a resonance box, so that I can make a resonance by vibrating a tuning fork of the same frequency, and holding it near the box. With this system, I could even vary the amplitude of the wave as I want by hitting the fork hard or soft. But i found that my school doesn't have the resonance box.

I searched on the net to see if I could buy one, but the only one on Amazon is a bit expensive (about $80, which amounts to 5120 INR).

Does anyone have an idea that could help me out of this situation? This is the only problem that I am facing.
Suggestion is to create the sound with an electric guitar string that comes with an amplifier/speaker system. I think you would want the sound to travel mostly in one direction, so it would help to confine the sound from the speaker somehow.
 
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Charles Link said:
Suggestion is to create the sound with an electric guitar string that comes with an amplifier/speaker system. I think you would want the sound to travel mostly in one direction, so it would help to confine the sound from the speaker somehow.
Excellent idea. But the problem is that, neither do I have a guitar, nor do I know how to play it.

Your mention of speakers or amplifiers reminded me of something. There is one app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chrystianvieyra.physicstoolboxsoundfrequencygenerator that I can use. Moreover, it provides options to vary frequency by small to large amounts, change waveform and the harmonics. So I'll use that.

Thanks anyways. :smile:
 
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A setup with a guitar or any human-audible sound waves will not give good results. At the highest frequencies of about 10 kHz, and a sound velocity in water of about 1500 m/s, the wavelength is 15 cm, and that will be the order of the grating spacing. If we now use the standard equation for diffracion, d sinθ = mλ, the angle of diffraction is much too small to be measured. The standard experiment uses ultrasound at frequencies around 10 MHz.
 
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Thank you @Chandra Prayaga I have had some experience with the Raman-Nath effect, but that was quite a number of years ago, and yes, the frequencies that were used were in the low MHz region. We worked with piezoelectric transducers if I remember correctly, and they are not very expensive, but also not inexpensive. I believe the waves they generate can come in two forms=bulk waves and surface waves. @Wrichik Basu You may want to google "acousto-optic" devices and see what is commercially available.
 
@Chandra Prayaga thanks for the pointing that out soon enough, otherwise I would have had to face some difficulties in school if I had already told the lab assistants to make arrangements.

@Charles Link commercial devices? I cannot afford it in any way. Maybe I've to wait to do the experiments till I enter college. :headbang: :cry: :H
 
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You are welcome.
 

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