Explain chemical formulas PO43-

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the chemical formula PO4^3-, specifically focusing on the representation and significance of the numbers and symbols in the formula, including the charge and electronic composition of the atoms involved. Participants explore concepts related to Lewis structures, formal charge calculations, and the bonding characteristics of phosphorus and oxygen in this polyatomic ion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the meaning of the "3" and the "-3" charge in PO4^3-, as well as the differences in electronic composition between the oxygen atoms.
  • Another participant notes that the superscript indicates the charge of the ionic species.
  • A question is posed about the use of Lewis structures in understanding the bonding in PO4^3-.
  • A participant explains the electron count for phosphorus and oxygen, detailing how the bonding and lone pairs contribute to the overall charge of the ion.
  • Formal charge calculations are introduced, with a participant outlining how to determine the formal charge for each atom in the phosphate ion, indicating that the three single-bonded oxygens carry a -1 charge each, while phosphorus and the double-bonded oxygen have a formal charge of 0.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the electronic structure and bonding in PO4^3-, with no consensus reached on the interpretations of certain aspects, such as the nature of the bonding and the implications of hybridization. The discussion remains unresolved regarding some of the more complex concepts introduced.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of hybrid orbitals and formal charge calculations, as well as varying levels of familiarity with Lewis structures among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and individuals interested in chemistry, particularly those studying chemical bonding, polyatomic ions, and formal charge calculations.

Robotesco
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
PO43-

I Understand the 4 represents how many oxygen atoms are bonded to the Phosphate. What exactly does the 3 and its - sign represent? By the image, I can tell the difference between the 3 oxygen atoms and the single isolated one, with the double || symbol, has a different electronic composition. Explain why the single | symbol is used and why the isolated O atom uses two ||s. Please also describe the difference between the two electronic compositions. Why does it show 3 pairs of dots on the O33-s and a double pair on the single O2-

hqdefault.jpg
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
The superscript indicates the magnitude and charge of ionic species, monatomic or polyatomic.
 
P has 5 elecrons in outer shell, O has 6 electrons in outer shell. So P + 4O has 5 + 24 = 29 electrons in outer shells
Dots represent single electrons.
Bar is a pair of electrons shared
Double bar is 2 pairs of electrons shared

Total electrons in diagram = 22 dots + 3 bars + 1 double bar = 22 + 6 + 4 = 32 electrons
So the ion has 32-29=3 more electrons than the neutral atoms. This is a charge of -3

As far as I understand it (not very far!) the 3 O each have one extra electron and share an electron with P. Each bar is the sharing of 2 electrons.
The last O has no extra electons, but shares two from the P.
Why the P still sees this as only 2 electrons, I don't know, maybe some sort of dative bond? ( I don't really understand hybrid orbitals & all that qed stuff.)
Phosphorus is funny stuff and appears to exhibit various valencies and bonding combinations. You'll just have to wait for Borek or some other expert to help with that. (Or read about it. There are some pretty detailed explanations I've found, but way over my old head.)
 
Have you ever used 'Formal Charge' equation to define the oxidation state of an element in a compound? For PO43-, let the single bonded oxygens be Oxy(1), Oxy(2), Oxy(3) and the double bonded Oxy(4). For Oxys (1 - 3), each has a -1 formal charge... The formal charge equation is FC = V - (B/2) - N; V = valence of element, B = number of bonded electrons, N = number of non-bonded electrons. (Note: B for - O is 2e-, B for = O is 4e- ; N for - O (3 non-bonded pair = 6 electrons) and O (2 non-bonded pair = 4 electrons).

For PO43-
Single bonded Oxys ( 1 - 3 ) FC (on each) = V - B/2 - N = 6 - 2/2 - 6 = -1
Double bonded Oxy ( #4 ) FC = V - B/2 - N = 6 - 4/2 - 6 = 0
Phosphorous FC = V - B/2 - N = 5 - (10/2) - 0 = 0
The only elements of the structure carrying a formal charge are the three single bonded oxygens; so ∑ ( - O ) = 3( -1) = -3. Phosphorous and Oxy (4) with double bond FC = 0. => [ (-1) for Oxy#1 ] + [ (-1) for Oxy#2 ] + [ (-1) for Oxy#3 ] + [ (0) for Oxy#4 ] + [ (0) for Phosphorous ] = Net charge for polyion phosphate = -3
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
13K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K