Exploring Conservation of Momentum and Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the laws of conservation of momentum and energy, examining whether one is fundamentally underpinned by the other. It includes theoretical considerations and practical examples, particularly in the context of collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the law of conservation of momentum is underpinned by the law of conservation of energy.
  • Another participant argues that both laws follow from Newton's laws and highlights the difference between energy as a scalar and momentum as a vector.
  • Some participants propose that inelastic collisions illustrate situations where momentum is conserved while energy is not, noting that energy is lost as heat and deformation.
  • A later reply emphasizes the practical ease of tracking momentum over energy in certain problems, suggesting that momentum may be more important in these contexts.
  • One participant mentions the role of Newton's 3rd law in underpinning these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between momentum and energy conservation, with no consensus reached on whether one law underpins the other. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives on the significance and application of these laws.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that energy conservation can be difficult to track in practical scenarios, particularly in inelastic collisions, where energy is transformed rather than conserved. This introduces complexity in understanding the conservation laws.

Saado
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Is the law of conservation of momentum underpinned by the law of conservation of energy?
 
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No . They both follow from Newtons laws at the most basic level. Also note that Energy is a scalar quantity and momentum is a vector, so there is quite a bit of difference in the kind of information they provide.
 
also, momentum is sometime more easy to keep track of, than energy. So in some situations we use a physical model where energy is not conserved, but momentum is conserved. For example, inelastic collisions, where we say momentum must be conserved, but we do not require energy to be conserved. In reality, the energy is lost as heat and deformation of the objects. But since it is hard to keep track of those things, we often just model the situation as if it does not conserve energy.
 
BruceW said:
also, momentum is sometime more easy to keep track of, than energy. So in some situations we use a physical model where energy is not conserved, but momentum is conserved. For example, inelastic collisions, where we say momentum must be conserved, but we do not require energy to be conserved. In reality, the energy is lost as heat and deformation of the objects. But since it is hard to keep track of those things, we often just model the situation as if it does not conserve energy.

Nice example of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWVZ6APXM4w
 
A.T. said:
Nice example of this: ...
haha, yeah I saw that. It felt nice to guess the right answer straight away. I suppose it is the intuition that comes from doing these kinds of problems many times. Momentum is more important than energy, when it comes to these types of problems. Again, I feel the need to say energy is 'truly' conserved too. But it's lost as heat or deformation, which is not easy to identify in these kinds of problems.
 
underpinned by Newton's 3rd law.
 

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